# Recommended AVR Programmer/Debugger/Emulator? **URL:** \ **Category:** MicroMod\ **Tags:** avr-atmel\ **Created:** [June 11, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604 "2008-06-11T03:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zbalz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/898d66/32.png) [@zbalz](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/zbalz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/1 "2008-06-11T03:14:21Z")
So I’m about to enter the AVR world (after a ~2 year hiatus, previously doing PIC). After some research here, I am still confused as to which is the ideal AVR programmer. In a nutshell, here are the options I’ve seen floating around: * * * 1. AVR Dragon - ~$50 - Programmer, debugger, and emulator - ICSP? - Breakout possible? 1. Olimex AVR-USB-JTAG - ~$60 - Direct alternative to JTAGICE MKII 1. JTAGICE MKII - ~$300+ - Official evaluation board endorsed by Atmel - Programmer, debugger, and emulator, with 32bit support? 1. AVR-PG1 - ~$13 2. Basic serial programmer with ICSP support 3. Olimex-Px0 Prototype boards - ~$15+ - Prototype boards with serial interfaces, only ICSP - Connection to computer still required * * * So with these options, what are the key features/discriminators of each? And are any main ones missing? All opinions appreciated so I can select the best for my basic prototyping/learning. ---
**Author:** ![stevech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba8739/32.png) [@stevech](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/stevech)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/2 "2008-06-11T04:28:09Z")
I have a variety of AVR modules and boards. I have a $20 JTAG that works with Studio and WinAVR. I have an Atmel ISP using USB and one using RS232. I can’t get into JTAG. Seems more trouble than it’s worth versus using printf’s for debugging. Maybe I’m a dolt. Lately, I download using the JTAG below and debug using printfs going to a PC’s serial or USB port [http://www.nkcelectronics.com/avr-jtag- … r-kit.html](http://www.nkcelectronics.com/avr-jtag-ice-clone-debugger-programmer-kit.html) Also consider the modules from [ZBasic.net](http://ZBasic.net) and OakMicros. Very nice. The ZBasic compiler is very Visual Basic-like - and for a hobby thing, it’s superb. I use it and C for various projects PS: Why did you post the same kind of questions in the ARM forum? ---
**Author:** ![leon\_heller](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/sparkfun/user_avatar/community.sparkfun.com/leon_heller/32/7602_2.png) [@leon\_heller](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/leon_heller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/3 "2008-06-11T08:27:19Z")
The Dragon is worth getting, although some people have had reliability issues with it. Leon ---
**Author:** ![zbalz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/898d66/32.png) [@zbalz](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/zbalz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/4 "2008-06-11T11:44:17Z")
> stevech: > PS: Why did you post the same kind of questions in the ARM forum? I’m also going to try out ARM soon as well. I figured it would be different audiences. And for later searching (From other folks) it’d be easier than mixing ARM and AVR in the same thread. Thanks for the response! ---
**Author:** ![zbalz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/898d66/32.png) [@zbalz](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/zbalz)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/5 "2008-06-12T03:02:35Z")
> leon\_heller: > The Dragon is worth getting, although some people have had reliability issues with it. > > Leon My only concerns with the dragon is: 1. its 32kb flash memory restriction. Has this been an issue for anyone? 2. It’s development/prototyping limitations. It seems to do any custom application/prototyping, you’ll need some breakout boards like the Dragon Rider 500. ---
**Author:** ![Chupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Chupa](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/Chupa)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/6 "2008-06-12T14:43:33Z")
the dragon is great. [[its just so delicate](http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=54390). I simi fried one last week. Its defiantly the best choice if your looking to get started. Especially with the dragon rider.]([http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=54390](http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=54390)) ---
**Author:** ![leon\_heller](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/sparkfun/user_avatar/community.sparkfun.com/leon_heller/32/7602_2.png) [@leon\_heller](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/leon_heller)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/7 "2008-06-12T14:59:45Z")
I feel that a lot of the problems with the Dragon might be caused by an incorrect connection sequence. It should always be connected to the USB port on the PC before connecting it to the target or supplying power to the target. Leon ---
**Author:** ![Chupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Chupa](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/Chupa)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/8 "2008-06-12T16:05:09Z")
i may or may not have done that. ill try and avoid it with my 2nd one now. ---
**Author:** ![zbalz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/898d66/32.png) [@zbalz](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/zbalz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/9 "2008-06-13T01:17:38Z")
Thanks for the heads up! Seems like theres a lot of discussion over at AVRFreaks. So with the other concern, has anyone seen 32k as a limiting factor? And another side question, Is there any way to use the dragon to program external chips (ICSP style) in the event I am building a prototype on a separate breadboard? ---
**Author:** ![Chupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Chupa](https://community.sparkfun.com/u/Chupa)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://community.sparkfun.com/t/recommended-avr-programmer-debugger-emulator/7604/10 "2008-06-13T02:41:39Z")
i dont use the dragon for anything other than ICSP (oh and debuging). ICSP is the PIC term, they call it ISP (in system programing… i think) in AVR land. So to anser your question, yes. Theres a 6 pin ISP header on the board. I never ran into a 32k limit problem. But it obviously depends on what your doing. If your just starting out with the AVRs i don’t think you need to worry too much about it.