Long time listener first time caller.
I was wondering if the good lads at Sparkfun would consider doing an entry level Oscilloscope review? and possibly carrying one of the cheaper Oscilloscopes on the market?
I really like the Sparkfun approach to products and would love to hear their opinion on the scopes out there.
_mike
mprev:
I was wondering if the good lads at Sparkfun would consider doing an entry level Oscilloscope review? and possibly carrying one of the cheaper Oscilloscopes on the market?
So price is your dominant purchasing criterior?
mprev:
I really like the Sparkfun approach to products and would love to hear their opinion on the scopes out there.
Oscilloscopes come in all shapes and sizes. Isn’t your
question a bit like asking someone to rate ‘cars’ or ‘music’?
Wow that was helpfull.
Actually I think a quick primer on the shapes and sizes of 'scopes would be nice. If they can write posts about reflowing with toasters, and embossing guns I think they might have a clue about what someone might be looking for in an entry level 'scope.
No price doesn’t have much to do with it, but it would be nice not to spend a ton of money on features I’ll never use. A scope for debuggin PIC, and AVR projects is a lot different than broadcast television scopes.
if your looking for a µC debugging tool, a logic analyzer would probably be more helpful than an Oscope. sparkfun already sells this for such a purpose: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/produc … ts_id=8938
If you really wanted a Oscope for µC debugging it would need to be a DSO, which are fairly expensive.
mprev:
Long time listener first time caller.I was wondering if the good lads at Sparkfun would consider doing an entry level Oscilloscope review? and possibly carrying one of the cheaper Oscilloscopes on the market?
I really like the Sparkfun approach to products and would love to hear their opinion on the scopes out there.
_mike
I can see how a tutorial on the different types of scopes (analog, digital, storage, and digital scopes requiring a PC) would be helpful. Knowing what the important factors are (bandwidth, storage capacity, etc.) would help readers understand what scope would be best for them.
Because of the need for a dedicated PC, I was leaning away from a PC scope, but with the costs of netbooks in the $300 or less range, PC scopes are looking like an option for me again.
mprev:
Wow that was helpfull.
You’re welcome!
mprev:
Actually I think a quick primer on the shapes and sizes of 'scopes would be nice. If they can write posts about reflowing with toasters, and embossing guns I think they might have a clue about what someone might be looking for in an entry level 'scope.
Do you know what you want in a scope? I certainly don’t!
I or anyone else could write a book on the topic and
still not hit your specific needs.
mprev:
No price doesn’t have much to do with it, but it would be nice not to spend a ton of money on features I’ll never use.
Then buy a used one and see what you like or dislike. Use that to determine your next purchase.
mprev:
A scope for debuggin PIC, and AVR projects is a lot different than broadcast television scopes.
Not sure what broadcast television scopes are? Were you
thinking of vectorscopes or waveform monitors
(for analog NTSC/PAL standards)? Or, are you thinking
of signature analyzers for AES/EBU or AES3 digital audio,
and SDI (CCIR 601/SMPTE 259M serial digital video)?
bigglez:
SDI (CCIR 601/SMPTE 259M serial digital video)?
I think he meant that one! 
But seriously, why are these forums becoming so hostile all of the sudden? I keep seeing posts with varying degrees of rude subtleties, in response to completely legitimate replies. What’s going on?!
Also, some guidance on oscopes (and I bet some wouldn’t even mind a review or two on DLAs. the sparkfun stocked Logic looks like it would fit my needs, at least for the time being) would be appreciated by myself as well.
by DLA I assume you mean digital logic analyzer?
Standalone LAs are too expensive and dont seem to have nearly as many goodies as PC ones (parsing of various protocols, I2C, SPI, USART). I myself have a [DigiView which I like very much. I bought it before I learned about the [LogicPort from these forums. Its $100 less and has better specs. To be honest 18 channels is more than enough for most µC debugging applications. I dont think I have ever used more than 10 at a time in the year that ive had it.
I can only speak for the DigiView as that’s the one I have. The software woks good. Tech support is good and very helpful, and just good business practices. When i bought mine i payed (a lot) for overnight shipping. When there was a UPS problem and it turned into 2 day delivery they refunded my money with out any questions. I have never really had a tech problem with it.
Im sure the PC LA that sf sells is just as good.
As far as Oscopes go. I had similar questions in this thread:
The consensus seemed to be PC scopes are a pain in the ass. Your better off getting a stand alone DSO or scope. Tektronix TDS2012 is the one ive been looking at for a long time but it is expensive. $1k.](http://www.pctestinstruments.com/)](http://www.tech-tools.com/dv_dv1.htm)
I have the Saleae Logic that SFE sells. I can give a review, but I don’t think there’s much more that I can say than you can find out yourself from the product page and the demo software.
It has been very helpful in debugging interface connections. SPI, I2C, serial, RF. It was well worth the money.
With digital electronics I don’t have a whole lot of use for an o-scope. There’s been time when it would have been nice to have, but not worth the price for what I do.
I must admit that my initial reaction to your post was the same as the 2nd poster. something long the lines of “How could we possibly recommend a scope without knowing what your needs are.”
BUT, then i re-read your question -
mprev:
I really like the Sparkfun approach to products and would love to hear their opinion on the scopes out there.
and I now see that you weren’t asking that. You were asking to understand oscilloscopes more, and hoping that SparkFun could write-up a walk-through/tutorial. That seems like a fair request.
I did find a few site, that may be valuable for you to look at, while you wait (and hope) that SparkFun might fill this need. (These aren’t exactly what you’re looking for, but maybe they will help a little.)
A decent tutorial is here:
https://www.cs.tcd.ie/courses/baict/bac/jf/labs/scope/
A 3 part you-tube video on using o-scopes are here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIfo_-d82Co
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUIgAu3QQWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_KuGEh0PyA
Also, depending on what types of circuits/projects you want to use an oscilloscope for, your eventual device can range anywhere from the PC-Based “Logic” device that sparkfun sells (for debugging/troubleshooting embedded electronics stuff), to a used (older) scope from eBay for troubleshooting analog signals, to a full blown MSO/DSO scope from Tek or other company for doing both.
In general if you want a standalone, modern, color LCD based O-Scope with decent bandwidth - you’re probably looking at $600+ (with most starting at $1000).
If you also want to be able to do logic capture/analysis on it, add another $1000,
If you also want to be able to auto-decode protocols (ex: capture I2C traffic and show “address=D0”, “data=C5”, instead of having to count the 1 and 0’s) add another $1000. (This gets really expensive on standalone scopes, and is the area where PC-based devices really shine on better features and much lower cost.)
I personally have the following scopes, feel free to ask questions about them (newest purchases on top):
Tektronix MSO 2012 (standalone LCD o-scope & logic analyzer w/ multiple protocol analysis modules)
Saelae Logic (PC based - protocol analyzer) - available from sparkfun
LogicPort (PC based - protocol analyzer)
Cleverscope (PC based - o-scope & protocol analyzer)
Thanks guys! Especially AzRobbo.
I realize my original question was a little vague, I’m more than familiar with noob syndrome out there on the tubes. But I just couldn’t find what I was looking for out on the net.
I keep seeing cheap Chinese LCD scopes and couldn’t find a legit review out there. Figured it would be something right up Sparkfun’s ally.
My underlying question: Is a modern cheap digital scope more bang for your buck than a older generation used “name brand” scope? Reliability? Maintainability? etc.
I had originally written off the Saleae Logic device because I could predict hating a PC based tool, and since it’s not realtime I didn’t see much versatility to it. The whole “capture then analyze” seams very foreign to me I’m sure I’d get used to it. In retrospect I’ll probably pick one up.
Thanks for the honest attempt at answers.
_mike
Thanks for refining your question a little bit. Based on this, let me attempt to try to give you a little more info…
mprev:
My underlying question: Is a modern cheap digital scope more bang for your buck than a older generation used “name brand” scope? Reliability? Maintainability? etc.
While I can’t really speak to the reliability aspect, I can speak to the “bang for the buck” aspect, which ultimately depends on features. Which leads us back to the question that a feature decision really depends on what type of signals you want to measure with the scope.
If you’re primarily going to measure & analyze analog signals - the voltage signal coming out of a power supply, or the waveforms generated by a transmitter, audio work, etc… - any decent analog scope (old or new) will do a good job at this.
By decent you want to make sure that the scope runs fast enough to capture the signal you’re trying to measure (the Mhz of Ghz of the scope), AND it also needs have enough resolution (the amount of data captured per time period) so you can zoom in on the data. If this is your primary area of interest, then I’ve seen many posts recommending purchasing a used name brand scope from eBay (Tek, HP, ar Agilent are 3 brands that come to mind, but there are others).
You can occasionally catch a good deal on great older analog scopes for around 400-500, a decent new one probably starts around 800-1000 (for a name brand).
mprev:
I had originally written off the Saleae Logic device because I could predict hating a PC based tool, and since it’s not realtime I didn’t see much versatility to it. The whole “capture then analyze” seams very foreign to me I’m sure I’d get used to it. In retrospect I’ll probably pick one up.
This question depicts an interest at analyzing digital data. For example, connecting it to an AVR/PIC microcontroller and watching the clock and data on the I/O, UART or I2C pins. Getting a standalone scope that does this type of function really bumps to cost substantially. Scopes that do both Digital Capture/Analysis and Analog Signals are referred to as Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes (MSO), and get very expensive, very quickly. The cheapest way to do this is via a PC based device (and you wont be missing many features either).
There are some newer inexpensive standalone scopes that target this market (Rygol is one that comes to mind) and they do a decent job. Unfortunately, if you really start using them, there’s usually 1 or 2 limitations that will annoy the heck out of you.
You mention ‘realtime’ analysis, and SOME of these PC based devices DO allow you to watch the data in ‘realtime’ (not the Saleae device, but there are other which do allow more “live data”). If you simply want to watch an I/O line toggle between 1 and 0, you can do that on an o-scope AND a some PC-based devices. However, you will find, that whenever you want to analyze complex data, you will need to ‘capture it’ because it’s not humanly possible to view/interpret it quickly enough (digital data can happen way to fast to see). Entire sentences are transmitted in seconds; and no matter how smart you are, you wont be able to count the ones and zeros that quick
Analyzing data on the “logic” device is just like analyzing the data on my standalone o-scope. Its usually done after the data was already transmitted. If you haven’t seen them, I would highly recommend you check out the videos on Saleae’s website: http://www.saleae.com/logic/videos/.
So in summary - for analog focused - consider a (good condition) used scope on eBay, and for digital data analysis look at PC based devices. Unfortunately, I am not aware of a good ‘entry level-device’ that does both well enough (unless you want to spend 1500+, and even then you’ll be missing features).
Sorry that I rambled on for so long, hopefully this was helpful.
AZRobbo Thank you, thank you, thank you.
That was a logical, contextually accurate response. Basically what I walk away from that post with is that I’m going to need both. Both a decent sub ghz analog scope and a Logic analyzer. It sounds like both can be had for the sub 1K I’m planning to spend.
Since I’m a hobbyist, and work with a multitude of sensors, motors, and chips versatility is the game I’m after. I realize no one tool is going to do it all.
I do still with Sparkfun would run something on the subject, it would do nothing but help their bottom line in the end.
Here is one company that has inexpensive Oscopes
This page shows basic scopes from 25MHz to 60MHz and prices starting in the low $300 range
http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/pdsSeries.asp
This page shows mixed signal units with 2 analog and 16 logic analyzer channels starting at under $800
http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/msoSeries.asp
Saelig sells these units if you want to check pricing.
Good find falingtrea.
I actually looked at buying an Owon before I bought my Tek. I had heard some good things about them, but then I read a long review thread on another forum that exposed several limitations of their MSO scopes.
Based on the posts I read, I realized that for my digital analysis needs, I either needed to stay with a PC-based device or go to a more expensive standalone scope. (That’s what I was eluding to in the original post about limitations on some of the ‘entry level MSO scopes’)
I can’t recall the specifics offhand, but they were significant enough that I chose to spend an extra 4K on a different scope. That’s how I ended up with the Tek MSO2012; trust me I really didn’t want to spend 5K on a scope.
(edit)
I found one of the threads that I mentioned. It can be found at the URL below. It starts out specific to Rigol DSO Scopes, but the conversation eventually includes info on MSO scopes and other brands, such as Owon. (warning the thread is currently 25 pages long).