New Product - Copyright & Safety Issues

Archive New Product Ideas
1

Hi all,

I’ve been doing a bit of brainstorming and just had some general questions I thought some of you may be able to give me pointers on…

1 - If your making a product that you wanted to sell, what would be your obligations to the customer in terms of safety etc… ie; would you need to have your product electrically tested and certified safe? Or would that only apply to products that needed to be connected to a mains power supply?

2 - Relating to the above point, would these requirements differ if the product was being offered as a kit?

3 - If the products firmware was licensed under a GNU Public License but the PCB was your own, would you still be allowed to sell it?

4 - Say for example, you bought a stock ipod, installed linux onto it and then ‘pimped’ the ipod with a Diamond encrusted case? Would you then be able to resell this modified ipod as a sort of ‘Mega iPod’ without Apple getting all antsy? I’m not considering going into the custom ipod game, it is just a theoretical question :slight_smile:

Comments please :slight_smile:

2

konguk:
Hi all,

I’ve been doing a bit of brainstorming and just had some general questions I thought some of you may be able to give me pointers on…

Let me start by saying that I am NOT a lawyer. My comments are intended merely for discussion purposes.

1 - If your making a product that you wanted to sell, what would be your obligations to the customer in terms of safety etc… ie; would you need to have your product electrically tested and certified safe? Or would that only apply to products that needed to be connected to a mains power supply?

Depending on what your product does, besides safety the are also FCC (RFI) considerations. From what I understand, by using low voltage via a brick or a battery, there are reduced requirements w.r.t. safety, i.e. no UL testing.

2 - Relating to the above point, would these requirements differ if the product was being offered as a kit?

As I understand, kits do not need FCC approval.

3 - If the products firmware was licensed under a GNU Public License but the PCB was your own, would you still be allowed to sell it?

The good news is that GPL does not limit your ability to sell anything that people are willing to buy. There are aother possibly more problematic aspects of GPL (which may not matter to you). Depending on which variant of GPL, you may be required to release your PCB design under GPL as well. If this is what you intend, all is well. However is you have some special CPLD or other firmware on board, that you may not want to release, you have a problem.

4 - Say for example, you bought a stock ipod, installed linux onto it and then ‘pimped’ the ipod with a Diamond encrusted case? Would you then be able to resell this modified ipod as a sort of ‘Mega iPod’ without Apple getting all antsy? I’m not considering going into the custom ipod game, it is just a theoretical question :slight_smile:

Comments please :slight_smile:

Well, now you are talking about a third party, in this case Apple. I am not aware that Apple had released the IPOD under GPL. You will have to check the license agreement that came with the IPOD. Some companies see this a beneficial to their business. Others consider this trademark infraction.

3

Hi Muntron, thanks for your input. Don’t worry I won’t take anything you say as a legally binding statement!

I’m thinking you would be ok supplying something that ran off 5v, something that could be powered from USB. Say if you made a USB AVR programmer, would that have to be safety tested?

A good example would be http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/produc … cts_id=666# - what sort of safety checks have to be carried out on that product for sparkfun to legally have to sell it?

You see a lot of them for sale on the internet from various sites, surely these haven’t been passed by the fcc, safety tested etc…

4

4 - Say for example, you bought a stock ipod, installed linux onto it and then ‘pimped’ the ipod with a Diamond encrusted case? Would you then be able to resell this modified ipod as a sort of ‘Mega iPod’ without Apple getting all antsy? I’m not considering going into the custom ipod game, it is just a theoretical question Smile

About this, when the company where I work today started, we were making portable surveillance cameras using Samsung digital cameras. We had to solder some wires on the camera’s circuit to let our PCB take control of it (of course now that we know more about CMOS sensors and DSP we make our own integrated camera). All we needed legalwise was to be listed as a Samsung reseller since we were selling the camera along with the bundle.[/quote]

5

Hi Oliver,

Interesting point, how do you think that would apply to a product that isn’t being produced any more but the company that made them still existed?

Say if Samsung hadnt made that camera for years and you had bought up a load of old stock. Would the reseller status still have been all you would have needed? Or could you just have done it without there consent?

6

Hi Konguk,

As a reseller we had a Samsung representative that came visit us and that was well aware we were doing intrusive modifications to the device. He did not see any problem with this as long as we were handling the warranty service on the devices we were selling.

I guess what you should do is contact the company and see if they are open to letting you sell a customized version of their product.

7

I’m pretty sure the reseller thing was a contract or relationship thing. If they didn’t say Samsung or other wise use copyrighted material, they probably would have been fine.

On the iPod thing, I doubt Apple can do much about it legally as long as you don’t use any of their trademarks or copyrights. However, support and warrantees will be a problem. I bet they would try to figure out who you are getting the iPods from and mess with your source. Apple is like that.

8

I guess so, sneaky swines.

Any more advice on the electrical safety regulations issue? If a device was powered from USB would it need to be certified?

9

I guess it really depends on where you want to sell your product. If you want to put it on market in Europe, you’ll have to get the CE marking. Other than that I guess you only have to get it tested for EMI emission so that it complies with the FCC(US) or CRTC(Canada).

Of course if your thing catches fire easily then you can get charged for negligence.

10

I’m confused by the likes of the Arduino though http://tinker.it/ukstore/product_info.p … ucts_id=36

Surely they dont carry a CE or safety mark of any kind?

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According to [this site,

In general, CE Marking is most probably required if you want to sell, to the 27 European Union (EU) and 3 European Free Trade Association (EFTA) member states, the following 22 groups of products:

      appliances burning gaseous fuels, cableway installations to carry persons, construction products, electrical equipment, equipment and protective systems for explosive atmospheres, explosives for civil uses, hot water boilers, household refrigerators & freezers, lift, machinery, marine equipment, measuring instruments, medical devices, active implantable medical devices, in vitro diagnostic medical devices, non-automatic weighing equipment, personal protective equipment, pressure equipment, simple pressure vessels, recreational craft, radio equipment & telecommunications terminal equipment, toys and trans-European conventional rail system.

This seems to cover a lot of ground :-).](http://www.ce-marking.org/)

12

Actually, the Arduino does have a CE marking, in the copper on the underside.

13

Thanks for that, so the Arduino must have gone through CE safety checking.

If something was sold partially assembled, ie some SMd components already soldered, think that would be classed as a kit?

Maybe that would be a way round the situation?

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It’s worth pointing out that the CE mark is self-applied, that is you check that the device conforms and then put a CE mark on it.

For most things, there is no need to have them tested by a “notified company”, you just declare that the item conforms to the CE directives.

15

I know some FCC approvals take a long time and cost upwards of 100k or more. Specifically the CDMA version of the telit module that has the python interrupter. I researched that extensively a few months ago

16

Almost reaching completion of a tracking device based around the teit ge863gps.

I have possible customers in Europe and USA. Can someone give me a definitive answer as to what I need to do (approvals wise) to be able to sell this in Europe and UK?

I am getting confilcting answers Iand costs) from testing houses

17

In Europe and the UK, it must be CE marked and in compliance with all the CE directives. In the USA, it may need to be FCC approved since it uses radio signals.

CE marking can be self applied so long as you’re sure it is compliant, with the exception of a few categories which must be checked by an external company.

18

I am sending you a PM