Greetings,
I have a project that won’t fit into two layers. I’m thinking of trying a four layer design, and would like some feedback from anyone who has done a four layer design in EAGLE, and better yet, if it was fabbed by BatchPCB.
Comments Welcome!
bigglez:
Greetings,I have a project that won’t fit into two layers. I’m thinking of trying a four layer design, and would like some feedback from anyone who has done a four layer design in EAGLE, and better yet, if it was fabbed by BatchPCB.
Comments Welcome!
Greetings,
Over one hundred hits (to my post above) and no comments. Is anyone using BatchPCB for four layer PCBs? Anyone using EAGLE for PCB design (of four layer PCBs)? Any success (or horror) stories to share?
Thanks In Advance!
After all the original people asking us for 4 layer designs, we’ve seen exactly one design run.
I’ve run plenty in house here, and all I can say is that I haven’t had any problems, but then again I’m not exactly an unbiased observer ;).
The 4 layer boards are ERC tested as well, so they should be exactly to spec.
Cheers,
–David Carne
busonerd:
After all the original people asking us for 4 layer designs, we’ve seen exactly one design run.
Dave,
Thanks for the candid answer. As I’ve got a couple of fabbed PCBs en route from BatchPCB, the next couple of weeks will be busy. My initial four layer PCB design concept is on my “things to do” list, I’ll post a follow up.
Comments Welcome!
I could use the 4 layers for my designs…but at this point…I really don’t want to spend the extra money. It would make my designs much easier.
But I did not participate with the 4 layer request. I knew I could use 2 layers for just about everything I design. My designs are complex…but the price is more than twice what a two layer board is. I wish it were lower…but I understand the cost difference.
I think that is what run the “We need 4layer boards” people off. I guess they believed the price would double…but they didn’t consider the added complexity.
But I like the ability to run a 4 layer if necessary. I don’t know if it will be available forever…but I may use it some time in the future.
James L
We definitely plan to keep it available - it costs us nothing to keep the option open.
The main cost difference is in the fact that 4 layer boards need ERC testing, because they cannot be optically inspected.
I was just tryin to explain why nobody was helping you, which is why I mentioned it ;).
Cheers,
–David Carne
I’m still holding out hoping that 15 mil vias will be an option. I’d place an order tomorrow if they were.
That would be very awesome.poor-robot:
I’m still holding out hoping that 15 mil vias will be an option. I’d place an order tomorrow if they were.
What I would ideally like to see is a deal that has the same options as the goldpheonix special deal. 15mil hole minimum, 7mil trace/clearance minimum, etc. That way I could go straight from batch pcb prototypes to that deal without changing the design.
If you guys could add that on as another deal, I would gladly pay extra for it.
Hey,
15 mils is a go, no extra charge!
It’ll take me a little bit to update the drc scripts so they’re ok with it.
Cheers,
–David Carne
busonerd:
15 mils is a go, no extra charge!
Very nice!
-Bill
very nice indeed!
My next poject that I am starting today and possilby from now on will be 4 layer!
-DDL
Good to hear.
DRC should be good to go now - gimme a shout if anything 15 fails [I think I got all the right changes in].
Cheers,
–David Carne
David,
Is this only for four(4) layer boards…or on the whole run of the mill system?
James L
Hi.
A 15 mil 2 layer board will be allowed through - but it will increase the potential for a bad / defective prototype. 4 layer boards are all e-tested by gold phoenix, so they’re known good [which is a major portion of the price difference], but 2 layer boards receive only a visual inspection.
We’re gonna keep the official minimum drill at 20 mils, but we’ll let you submit at 15. Just don’t yell at us if a hole or two is not completely plated through.
Cheers,
–David Carne
David,
I forgot the 4 layer boards go through an electrical check. I will keep my 2 layer vias where they are.
Thanks for the info…it is great to have 4 layer boards with 15 mil vias.
James L
Awesome! I’ve got a board on its way! Thanks David.
busonerd:
A 15 mil 2 layer board will be allowed through - but it will increase the potential for a bad / defective prototype. 4 layer boards are all e-tested by gold phoenix, so they’re known good [which is a major portion of the price difference], but 2 layer boards receive only a visual inspection.We’re gonna keep the official minimum drill at 20 mils, but we’ll let you submit at 15. Just don’t yell at us if a hole or two is not completely plated through.
Cheers,
–David Carne
I have to clarify, what does e-testing actually entail? Do they just test continuity through all the pads and networks on each board? Is this an automated process?
When there has been a problem with the manufacturing, is there a way for us to fix it? Maybe if a via isn’t plated through, one could put thin wire through it, solder it on both sides, then clip off the excess?
I understand you aren’t guaranteeing the quality if we go under 20mil, and that’s fine with me, but I’d still like to avoid getting a bad board and not being able to do anything with it.
MT,
If the board maker finds a problem they can re-run the board or replate the holes. (2layer)
If we have a problem…we have to run a wire through the hole and connect the top and bottom. This only works with two layer boards…a four layer board would be near to impossible to fix for us.
That is why the board maker test the boards.
I have had a two layer board that wasn’t plated all the way through…and Batch PCB offered to replace the board. I didn’t take them up on the offer though.
James L
propellanttech:
MT,If we have a problem…we have to run a wire through the hole and connect the top and bottom. This only works with two layer boards…a four layer board would be near to impossible to fix for us.
That’s essentially what I wanted to know, and if that works then I don’t mind risking a few defects that can be fixed. Thanks.
Mike
I’m interested in 4 layers, but batchpcb is only cost effective for tiny boards. 18 square inches of 4-layer PCB here costs as much as 180 square inches at other no-touch vendors. If I ordered my boards from batchpcb they’d cost $1450! Even 2 layer they’d be 3x as much as a 4 layer board made elsewhere.
batchpcb is a great option for small boards, but I’m not sure what you guys were expecting with these prices…