The OP asked for an alternative to Eagle, and I merely suggested Easy-PC, which is about the same price and easier to use. I didn’t raise the issue of PSX vs Eagle.
That board was a good example of how useful a good autorouter can be. The same autorouter (Electra) is available for Eagle, BTW.
Where is it stated that this forum is only for Batch-PCB? Some people seem to be using other suppliers.
Leon
Here’s a good example of Leon rubbing me the wrong way.
The sample he gave wasn’t even his work, and it’s not
compatible with BatchPCB (who operate this forum for
their customers). We all know (thanks to Leon’s
propaganda) that Pulsonix is superior in every regard
and easy to use and well supported and, well, the best.
But it is not germane to this forum. Pushing it here is
not helpful.
sheesh biglez. If rubbing some one the wrong way justifies dumping on them then this place would be chaos. restrain yourself.
By the way, you have now spent far more effort and time upbraiding Leon than he ever spent pushing pulsonix. a little balance please.
Heck, I think Eagle is just fine but don’t see much benefit in fighting over it. This forum should be able to tolerate varied opinions.
Such certainty...Philba:
sheesh biglez. If rubbing some one the wrong way justifies dumping on them then this place would be chaos.
I don't think it is. But, this forum is operated byleon_heller:
Where is it stated that this forum is only for Batch-PCB? Some people seem to be using other suppliers.
SFE for BatchPCB customers (and others). Many of
the posts here are from PCB newbies. You have taken
the discussion to a higher level, promoted expensive
tools, offered complex examples to support your
claims of narrow performance advantages, taken time
to seek out faults and issues with EAGLE, and for what?
Stop knocking something that you don’t use, please.
It doesn’t help the OP or others seeking newbie help.
EAGLE doesn’t need promotion to the extend you
give that “other” brand.
Philba:
By the way, you have now spent far more effort and time upbraiding Leon than he ever spent pushing pulsonix. a little balance please.
Who died and made you the ombudsman?
bigglez:
leon_heller:
Eagle costs about $1,000 for an equivalent version to the unlimited Easy-PC version.Easy-PC also has an excellent autorouter and support is very good.
(1) This is a hobby forum - an expensive full fledged PCB
toolchain is not required to succeed with the BatchPCB service.
(2) EAGLE’s starting price is zero (free demo that has been
used for several real projects as detailed on their website).
(3) An Auto-router is not needed for PCB layout (I got my
start in PCB design with an Xacto knife and rubylith film).
(4) Paid EAGLE seats include tech support by email and
phone. Most if not all EAGLE newbie issues have already
been documented and are available for download.
(5) EAGLE tutorials, examples, and libraries are everywhere!
(6) The EAGLE GUI is not like MS Windows because the
PCB design process is not like MS Office applications or
any other PC-centric activity. EAGLE peculiarities are
related to efficient use of the tool for mods and docs,
in addition to original designs.
(7) The steep learning curve for hobby users has much to
do with non-PCB experienced users, not the toolchain.
(For example, the two most common industry PCB standards
are Gerber photoplotter files and Excellon drill files,
both are ad hoc standards with little interoperability on
different platforms or in different PCB houses.)
Does Leon earn a commission for continually pushing
Easy-PC or Pulsonix here?
Just for the record, I’ve looked back through this thread, and it seems as though it was this post by Bigglez that started this hoo-hah. I hadn’t even mentioned Pulsonix! Easy-PC, like Eagle, is intended for hobbyist and educational users whilst Pulsonix is a professional package competing with Altium, PADS and OrCAD.
Leon
bigglez:
Philba:
By the way, you have now spent far more effort and time upbraiding Leon than he ever spent pushing pulsonix. a little balance please.Who died and made you the ombudsman?
Hey I like that. Maybe I should change my name. However, I’d much rather be “Drama Cop”.
Perhaps I struck a nerve? Do you think that p*ssing on people is an example of good behavior?
This sums it up rather well, I think.
Philba:
Do you think that p*ssing on people is an example of good behavior?
Could you explain this remark? What does p*ssing mean?
What is *hoo-hah?*leon_heller:
Bigglez:
Does Leon earn a commission for continually pushingEasy-PC or Pulsonix here?
Just for the record, I’ve looked back through this thread, and it seems as though it was this post by Bigglez that started this hoo-hah.
Facts I've learned form this exchange:I hadn’t even mentioned Pulsonix! Easy-PC, like Eagle, is intended for hobbyist and educational users whilst Pulsonix is a professional package competing with Altium, PADS and OrCAD.
(1) leon_heller is compensated to promote certain PCB tools
(2) leon_heller has never used EAGLE
(3) leon_heller has never used BatchPCB
(4) leon_heller posted a pCB example that was not his own work
(5) leon_heller will spend time researching and posting EAGLE
negatives (thinking it will drive business to his sponsor’s products).
Note to Philba, this is not a personal attack on anyone,
just facts. It explains leon_heller biased posting motivation.
Smart people will keep this in mind when reading
future leon_heller posts.[/quote]
bigglez:
What is *hoo-hah?*leon_heller:
Bigglez:
Does Leon earn a commission for continually pushingEasy-PC or Pulsonix here?
Just for the record, I’ve looked back through this thread, and it seems as though it was this post by Bigglez that started this hoo-hah.
Facts I've learned form this exchange:I hadn’t even mentioned Pulsonix! Easy-PC, like Eagle, is intended for hobbyist and educational users whilst Pulsonix is a professional package competing with Altium, PADS and OrCAD.
(1) leon_heller is compensated to promote certain PCB tools
(2) leon_heller has never used EAGLE
(3) leon_heller has never used BatchPCB
(4) leon_heller posted a pCB example that was not his own work
(5) leon_heller will spend time researching and posting EAGLE
negatives (thinking it will drive business to his sponsor’s products).
Note to Philba, this is not a personal attack on anyone,
just facts. It explains leon_heller biased posting motivation.
Smart people will keep this in mind when reading
future leon_heller posts.
[/quote]
“Hoo-hah”: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hoo-hah
I’m not compensated to promote certain PCB tools, I’m merely pointing out the advantages of the ones I like.
I have used Eagle. I tried to use it where I used to work, but it was awkward to use, and kept crashing on me, so I insisted on using my own copy of Pulsonix.
I’ve never used Batch PCB. I use a service that gets me much better quality PCBs in under a week. I can get untested boards with a 24 hour turnround for £30 GBP each from the same supplier - PCB Train - in Newbury, UK: http://www.pcbtrain.co.uk/
I stated that the PCB wasn’t my own work. I did route it, however.
I merely posted CADsoft’s own bug list, which listed an inordinate number of bugs in 5.1. I hate to think how many bugs were in 5.0. It looks as if CADsoft is releasing buggy untested software, and expects users to do the alpha and beta testing for them. I feel that this practice is unethical, and that prospective users should know about it.
Leon
Note to Philba, this is not a personal attack on anyone,
just facts. It explains leon_heller biased posting motivation.
You are treading perilously close to libel. There is no proof of the things you claim.
It’s OK. I’m not going to sue him. 
Leon
If leon_heller can't see that leon_heller's recent posts onleon_heller:
I merely posted[/quote
this topic are not merely anything but a major
effort - as leon_heller seems to have an axe to grind - then
further discussion is futile.
Why leon_heller makes time to do this is beyond me.
Citing a problem leon_heller had while at an employer that
used EAGLE, and without indicating the date, the version of
EAGLE, or any particulars about the PC it was on, indicates
that leon_heller is carrying a grudge of some kind.
I get it that leon_heller would rather use the tools and
services that leon_heller likes, but leon_heller’s dogmatic
evangelism is tiring.
Poor ol’ Philba. While Philba likes to root for the underdog,
Philba really has his work cut out in the new role of
Ombudsman.
(insert smiley-things for the humour impaired)…
Yeah I’ll be frank. I tried eagle and hated it. Partly because I hadn’t a clue what I was doing even after several years of using Protel. I just thought it was pretty crappy software.
I don’t think I could live w/o an autorouter though… I remember pulsonic was free for up to so many traces or something so I’ll give that a whirl.
Are there any forums/tutorials on pulsonic you guys could recommend?
I’ve never tried Easy-PC though so I may just try a demo to see what it’s like.
Thanks!
The PSX demo is free for up to 100 pins and you get most of the features, but that won’t let you do much. It comes with a good tutorial, and you can join my forum:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PulsonixUG/
You might be able to get a 30 day full license if you email PSX support.
The Easy-PC demo is unlimited, but won’t let you save anything, which is less useful.
It’s just taken me about two hours total to create a complex BGA512 part with PSX:
http://www.leonheller.com/Designs/xmos.gif
That included assigning the footprint pads to the schematic symbols. It mostly involved copying and pasting from an existing schematic in a PDF file. The footprint wizard created the 512 pad footprint (including breakouts) in seconds.
If Bigglez would like to try creating it in Eagle, here are the docs I used:
https://products.xmos.com/system/files/ … -DS-87.pdf
and
https://support.xmos.com/system/files/x … -1_0_4.pdf
I’d be interested to hear how long it takes.
Leon
leon_heller really doesn't get it, does he?leon_heller:
If Bigglez would like to try creating it in Eagle, here are the docs I used:
We are not here to compete mono-on-mono regarding
PCB CAD tools. leon_heller may wish to spend time on
complex manipulations with CAD software, but I for one
have better things to do.
To restate the obvious (hopefully for the last time), EAGLE
is a good product that allows me (and others) to produce
PCB designs for BatchPCB (and other shops) to make
PCBs, on a budget, for hobby use, and with minimum fuss.
The learning curve was steep for me - I had not used any
other CAD software on a home PC, I only had a vague idea
of the work flow (SFE has produced useful EAGLE script tools
to allow easy access to BatchPCB fab services).
I have no idea if the CAD tools promoted by leon_heller are
any good. Frankly, I have no motivation to find out.
Although EAGLE has an auto-router I choose to route by
hand, and so far I have only used a limited number of high-
density footprints, including a TQFP32 device.
EAGLE has a large customer base, good support, and has
made a sincere effort to make the product “play” on
Windows OS (although its written for Linux).
My copy of EAGLE has never crashed, I have never lost
any work, and creating new footprints and symbols is
not very hard or time consuming.
The EAGLE entry point is free (demo version) but the standard
version is under $1k including the optional auto-router.
I measure my work by the number of functional PCBs I
can produce in a year - not by Auto-router contests.
QED
I’m working on a tiny PCB that will have four of those chips on it, delivering 6,400 MIPS.
I design about 50 PCBs a year, many for my own use.
Leon
Well… I cracked… Had a lot of time on my hands yesterday. Looked at one tutorial for Eagle and about 5 hours later had the whole board drawn up 
It wasn’t as difficult to figure out as I had thought. Although it may not be the best package to purchase… I’ll use it until the freebe version is not good enough for me.
Thanks!
What’s the board? Anything interesting?
Leon
