I want to draw up some boards. I’ve worked quite a bit with protel and dxp. However, I cannot afford them for home use.
Freinds had recommended Eagle… Is this about the best PCB design software for personal use?
If so, I have a copy but cannot figure out where to begin. It doesn’t have any components in it. I need to draw them but cannot figure out how. Is there a tutorial on the web to get me started?
Otherwise what is a good PCB design package?
Thanks!
yes, there are about 105,000 eagle tutorial links [here](eagle tutorial pcb - Google Search)
I use Eagle. It does have a ton of functionality for its price point (free or paid). Bonus points is its Linux native.
The downside is its quirkiness. It makes a ton of sense if you’ve been using Eagle for awhile (common actions are fast and low-intensity), but it really doesn’t behave like a lot of other applications.
What you want to do is add a library for your parts. SparkFun has a tutorial for that. But the upside of its very common nature is someone else on the internet (or SparkFun themselves) have made a part for you.
leon_heller:
Easy-PC is much easier to use than Eagle, and costs about the same:Leon
rather pricey for the hobbyist at USD$477
Even if they were equal in price EAGLE has a muchleon_heller:
Easy-PC is much easier to use than Eagle, and costs about the same
greater following (and therefore more support).
Results 1 - 10 of about 3,240 for Easy-PC cad tutorial
Results 1 - 10 of about 75,100 for EAGLE cad tutorial
QED
stevech:
leon_heller:
Easy-PC is much easier to use than Eagle, and costs about the same:Leon
rather pricey for the hobbyist at USD$477
That’s actually £477 GBP. It starts at £247 GBP.
Eagle costs about $1,000 for an equivalent version to the unlimited Easy-PC version.
Easy-PC also has an excellent autorouter and support is very good.
Leon
leon_heller:
Eagle costs about $1,000 for an equivalent version to the unlimited Easy-PC version.Easy-PC also has an excellent autorouter and support is very good.
(1) This is a hobby forum - an expensive full fledged PCB
toolchain is not required to succeed with the BatchPCB service.
(2) EAGLE’s starting price is zero (free demo that has been
used for several real projects as detailed on their website).
(3) An Auto-router is not needed for PCB layout (I got my
start in PCB design with an Xacto knife and rubylith film).
(4) Paid EAGLE seats include tech support by email and
phone. Most if not all EAGLE newbie issues have already
been documented and are available for download.
(5) EAGLE tutorials, examples, and libraries are everywhere!
(6) The EAGLE GUI is not like MS Windows because the
PCB design process is not like MS Office applications or
any other PC-centric activity. EAGLE peculiarities are
related to efficient use of the tool for mods and docs,
in addition to original designs.
(7) The steep learning curve for hobby users has much to
do with non-PCB experienced users, not the toolchain.
(For example, the two most common industry PCB standards
are Gerber photoplotter files and Excellon drill files,
both are ad hoc standards with little interoperability on
different platforms or in different PCB houses.)
Does Leon earn a commission for continually pushing
Easy-PC or Pulsonix here?
No, I just like the products. I Used Easy-PC for over 20 years until Pulsonix came along.
Both offer email and telephone support, as well as support via forums.
Easy-PC was developed specifically for the hobbyist and educational market, although it is also used by a lot of professionals.
I get Pulsonix free in return for beta-testing and a bit of consultancy.
Has Bigglez tried routing this sort of design by hand:
http://www.leonheller.com/Designs/pcb.gif
The Pulsonix router did it in just over two minutes. It’s done quite a good job. Easy-PC uses the same router.
Both Easy-PC and Pulsonix can import Eagle libraries, schematics and PCBs. I’ve actually helped people who have been unable to finish their designs with Eagle by importing them into Pulsonix!
They tried to get me to use Eagle where I used to work. I refused, because it took about twice as many mouse and keyboard operations to complete a design as it did using my own copy of Pulsonix, and it was aggravating RSI which I suffer from occasionally. It also tended to crash on me, Eagle support didn’t even respond to my request for help.
A colleague of mine who knew Eagle very well spent two weeks routing a PCB, that I could have done in about a day using Pulsonix.
Does Bigglez get commission for recommending Eagle?
Leon
bigglez:
leon_heller:
Eagle costs about $1,000 for an equivalent version to the unlimited Easy-PC version.Easy-PC also has an excellent autorouter and support is very good.
(1) This is a hobby forum - an expensive full fledged PCB
toolchain is not required to succeed with the BatchPCB service.
(2) EAGLE’s starting price is zero (free demo that has been
used for several real projects as detailed on their website).
(3) An Auto-router is not needed for PCB layout (I got my
start in PCB design with an Xacto knife and rubylith film).
(4) Paid EAGLE seats include tech support by email and
phone. Most if not all EAGLE newbie issues have already
been documented and are available for download.
(5) EAGLE tutorials, examples, and libraries are everywhere!
(6) The EAGLE GUI is not like MS Windows because the
PCB design process is not like MS Office applications or
any other PC-centric activity. EAGLE peculiarities are
related to efficient use of the tool for mods and docs,
in addition to original designs.
(7) The steep learning curve for hobby users has much to
do with non-PCB experienced users, not the toolchain.
(For example, the two most common industry PCB standards
are Gerber photoplotter files and Excellon drill files,
both are ad hoc standards with little interoperability on
different platforms or in different PCB houses.)
Does Leon earn a commission for continually pushing
Easy-PC or Pulsonix here?
I think there should be a Leon drinking game. Rules:
1 drink: Every time he talks about how great Metcal is
2 drinks: Every time he talks about Pulsonix
1 drink: Every time he recommends Easy-PC
1 drink: every time he recommends U-Blox
Problem is - you’d get drunk very fast!
As for the OP’s question: Easy-PC/Pulsonix/anything else that you have to pay for is not the answer for you. Eagle sucks - it really really really sucks - but the limited edition of it is free. Plus - the user base of it is massive, so it’ll be easy to get going with it, even though it sucks. So even though it is terrible, awful software - I think it’s the best route for you.
If you ever have a large amount of money to spend on ECAD tools - don’t buy Eagle. Buy real software that wasn’t written by inebriated monkeys.
The OP asked for a good PCB package, so I suggested one. What’s wrong with that? If he’s used to Protel, he is much less likely to have problems if he moves to something that operates in a similar manner like Easy-PC than if he moves to Eagle.
For some amusement (or schadenfreude) I just had a look at the Cadsoft Eagle support forum: it’s full of tales of woe about crashes, slowness, and problems with the software. The Pulsonix and Easy-PC forums have very few, if any, posts like that.
Here are the bugs that have been fixed in Eagle 5.1:
entered in the command line of a board editor window.
rectangle on the screen is only a single pixel wide.
background.
endings in the CAM Processor.
after switching into arc mode with Ctrl+Left.
‘s += t’ in loops with many executions.
without having edited a particular package, symbol or device set, yet,
and the grid is actually displayed.
Fixed a performance issue in displaying status messages and progress bars.
Fixed handling uppercase characters in directory names in the Control
Panel’s tree view under Windows and Mac OS X.
Fixed setting the state of a dlgCheckBox from within its statement.
Fixed a crash when entering a curve parameter (like “@+20”) in a command
that works with wires, without an actual wire attached to the cursor.
entry field with the right mouse button.
object or the layer of a wire in the properties dialog, in case this
resulted in a wire optimization.
Fixed handling the ‘A’ modifier in coordinates entered in the command line.
Fixed redisplaying a ULP dialog if the dlgRedisplay() call is followed by
a loop statement.
dialog item is modified.
Fixed displaying status messages while a script is running.
Fixed calculating the width of the last column in a dlgListView.
Fixed updating the layer colors in the parameter toolbar’s Layer combo
box in case they are modified with the DISPLAY or SET command while
a command is active.
of a net wire or junction.
driver in case the drawing consists exclusively of such rectangles.
that use the CUPS printing system.
in case the default value is empty.
in the schematic.
terminated with ‘;’.
Fixed missing spaces when rendering ‘-’ between tags.
Fixed displaying the placeholder texts “>DRAWING_NAME”, “>LAST_DATE_TIME”,
“>PLOT_DATE_TIME” and “>SHEET” in case a part is smashed.
Fixed handling file names that start with a ‘.’ in the PRINT command.
Fixed unexpected wire fragments in CAM Processor and PRINT output.
WARNING: All EAGLE versions from 4.90.1 to 5.1.1 contain
a bug which, under rare circumstances, may cause unexpected wire fragments
in the CAM Processor and PRINT output, which may lead to short circuits.
These wires are not visible in the
editor window and are not reported by the DRC. This bug is fixed in version
5.2.0 (and since version 5.1.2, respectively). Please switch to version 5.2.0
as soon as possible. Windows users should also make sure they use the latest
version of the command line version eaglecon.exe, which is automatically
generated from the eagle.exe during installation. You can determine the
actual version of your eaglecon.exe by calling
eaglecon -?
Fixed a possible crash in the DRC when handling extremely small arcs.
The values for “Catch factor” and “Select factor” can now be entered
as decimal numbers in the “Options/Set/Misc” menu to allow values less
than 1.
properly mention the alpha channel of ARGB values.
Fixed the description of REAL_EPSILON in the online help.
Fixed selecting a group with the alternate grid in the COPY command.
Fixed subtracting very small and thin arcs from polygons.
Fixed handling UTF-8 characters in the readfile() function when reading
into a string array.
the Dimension layer, as it was the case in version 4.x.
command.
project named /abc/def is open and a file named /abc/def-1/some/name
is edited.
dialog when the dialog is opened.
Fixed unwanted flashing of signal when placing a wire in the ROUTE command.
Fixed a crash if a CHANGE command is applied to a group containing a
polygon that is in the calculated state, and that CHANGE causes a
recalculation of the polygon.
attributes.
actual hotkey in the label.
I see that users are requesting features that have been in Pulsonix for years.
The new version 5 of Pulsonix was released recently - I think there have been two very minor bugs, both of which I found.
Metcal and u-blox are very good products. Metcal is generally acknowledged as making the best soldering equipment, and u-blox makes the best GPS units. They are used by the US military rather than any home-grown alternative because of their high performance and reliability.
Leon
man, do we have to get personal here. Leon likes the products he uses. Should he be silenced? No. Should any one else be silenced? again, no. The strength of this board is that many smart and opinionated people come together. muzzling one is a very bad precedent.
If you can’t handle him being a booster, don’t read his posts.
Philba:
man, do we have to get personal here. Leon likes the products he uses. Should he be silenced? No. Should any one else be silenced? again, no. The strength of this board is that many smart and opinionated people come together. muzzling one is a very bad precedent.If you can’t handle him being a booster, don’t read his posts.
It’s actually counter-productive. When someone attacks me like that I have to justify my position, which gives the products I like even more publicity, and makes the products I don’t like, such as Eagle, look even more like bug-ridden rubbish…
Leon
I was not aware that leon_heller has used EAGLE at all?leon_heller:
Easy-PC is much easier to use than Eagle, and costs about the same:
How can you make such a comparison?
leon_heller:
I get Pulsonix free in return for beta-testing and a bit of consultancy.
That would explan quite a bit…
leon_heller:
Has Bigglez tried routing this sort of design by hand:
Nope, why would I? This is a hobby forum.
I don't use the autorouter. I prefer to hand route toleon_heller:
The Pulsonix router did it in just over two minutes. It’s done quite a good job. Easy-PC uses the same router.
have greater control over the design. I literally touch
every track/trace, via and pad. It greatly reduces the
errors, and as a hobby, I enjoy doing it.
leon_heller:
They tried to get me to use Eagle where I used to work. I refused…
Team player, are you?
leon_heller:
Does Bigglez get commission for recommending Eagle?
No. They don’t have to bribe me to speak in support.
I like EAGLE; it fits my budget, my work style, my PCB
needs, it is compatible with BatchPCB (who host this forum),
and what little contact I’ve had with Ed Robledo (CADsoft
USA GM) has been pleasant and helpful.
Nothing. Except that the OP indicated a limited budget.leon_heller:
The OP asked for a good PCB package, so I suggested one. What’s wrong with that?
Agreed.leon_heller:
If he’s used to Protel, he is much less likely to have problems if he moves to something that operates in a similar manner like Easy-PC than if he moves to Eagle.
Too much free time?...leon_heller:
For some amusement (or schadenfreude) I just had a look at the Cadsoft Eagle support forum:
You are not counting two important factors:leon_heller:
it’s full of tales of woe about crashes, slowness, and problems with the software. The Pulsonix and Easy-PC forums have very few, if any, posts like that.
(1) EAGLE has many more users than your boutique SW
(2) Many if not most are amateurs or hobbyists
Of course there are. Version 5 was a major overhaul toleon_heller:
Here are the bugs that have been fixed in Eagle 5.1:
bring EAGLE’s GUI in-line with MS Windows platforms.
Many of the ‘bugs’ are to change the philosophy of the
way the product is used, not to fix design errors.
CADsoft issued a warning that of the thousands of seats
they have sold, and tens of thousands of PCBs that
were designed by their products, only ONE case of a
Gerber error was reported in Version 5.0. They quickly
issued 5.1, and have since issued 5.2 in response to
user input. Think of 5.0 as Beta testing.
leon_heller:
I see that users are requesting features that have been in Pulsonix for years.
Great!
Better to have a low entry point (EAGLE) and grow
the product than produce a high package and see
your market errode.
One for each of their paying customers, eh?leon_heller:
The new version 5 of Pulsonix was released recently - I think there have been two very minor bugs, both of which I found.
leon_heller:
Metcal and u-blox are very good products. Metcal is generally acknowledged as making the best soldering equipment.
Agreed! I got a second hand MX-500 for not
quite $500, but really, who has that kind of money for
a hobby? How did this thread go from PCB tools to
solder rework tools?
Leon, I’m not your enemy. I enjoy your posts, you
take a lot of time to keep up with this forum and everyone
benefits.
You do however come across as the Pulsonix cheering
section, even when the topic has only obliquely been
about PC CAD tools.
Taking shots at EAGLE is disingenuous of you. Why not
promote a Ferrari over a Mini Cooper? They each have
a place on the road.
leon_heller:
]Has Bigglez tried routing this sort of design by hand:
Nope, why would I? This is a hobby forum.
I don't use the autorouter. I prefer to hand route toleon_heller:
The Pulsonix router did it in just over two minutes. It’s done quite a good job. Easy-PC uses the same router.have greater control over the design. I literally touch
every track/trace, via and pad. It greatly reduces the
errors, and as a hobby, I enjoy doing it.
I don’t use the autorouter very much, but it is a real time-saver with things like FPGAs and CPLDs. Life’s too short to mess about with simple connections when the computer can do a much better job.
I route all the critical tracks manually, of course.
leon_heller:
They tried to get me to use Eagle where I used to work. I refused…Team player, are you?
I don’t see where that comes in. If I’m asked to do something silly by management I tell them to get stuffed.
A colleague of mine who knew Eagle very well spent two weeks routing a PCB with Eagle that I could have done in one day with Pulsonix. Manual routing, of course.
leon_heller:
Does Bigglez get commission for recommending Eagle?No. They don’t have to bribe me to speak in support.
I like EAGLE; it fits my budget, my work style, my PCB
needs, it is compatible with BatchPCB (who host this forum),
and what little contact I’ve had with Ed Robledo (CADsoft
USA GM) has been pleasant and helpful.
What about all those bugs? Some of them are very serious, and will cause incorrect Gerbers to be generated. I think they were actually in 5.1 They seem to have been around for some time. With Easy-PC and Pulsonix serious bugs get fixed in a day or two.
Leon
No. Here's one that I did do. Probably myleon_heller:
Has Bigglez tried routing this sort of design by hand:(Oversize image deleted)
largest and most complex. Designed in EAGLE,
Fabbed by BatchPCB, assembled by hand. Works
without any errors or corrections. About half the
components were created from scratch and added
to the EAGLE library (because popular libraries
typically don’t have valves/tubes and other HV
parts). Enjoy!
Very neat!
That other board wasn’t one of mine, BTW, it was one of the PSX demos. It is an actual working design, though. It uses eight layers.
Here’s one of the trickier ones I’ve done:
http://www.leonheller.com/Designs/beacon.gif
It had to fit in a housing that had already been designed, which made the layout rather challenging.
Someone else raised the Metcal issue. Mine was quite cheap, as I got the older STSS unit. Some people prefer them to the MX-500, as they can use two power units with two handpieces always on.
Leon
Here's a good example of Leon rubbing me the wrong way.leon_heller:
That other board wasn’t one of mine, BTW, it was one of the PSX demos. It is an actual working design, though. It uses eight layers.
The sample he gave wasn’t even his work, and it’s not
compatible with BatchPCB (who operate this forum for
their customers). We all know (thanks to Leon’s
propaganda) that Pulsonix is superior in every regard
and easy to use and well supported and, well, the best.
But it is not germane to this forum. Pushing it here is
not helpful.
