Small, programmable, computer-ish type concept

Archive New Product Ideas
1

I honestly have no idea if something like this would be popular, practical or even possible, but since ideas never mentioned are worse than ideas that suck, I thought I’d get this concept out there anyway.

Note that this isn’t a product - it’s a concept. You can’t buy one yet. But if you like the idea of owning something like this you could reply to this thread :slight_smile:

Also, please be aware of the fact that I am an absolute noob when it comes to microcontrollers and such - the amount of knowledge I have on the subject could probably fill a 15-20 page pamphlet. That said, I think that what I want is still possible.

A year or so ago I got the idea for an extremely simple to program handheld computer-type thing, where instead of an OS, “killer application” and so on, you’d instead get full specs and demo code showing how the thing worked, a programming cable, and the words “do your worst”.

Something like that, anyway.

I don’t think for one second that this is a unique idea. It’s probably been dreamed up thousands of times, and it already exists to some extent in the form of PDAs and more recently things like smartphones and MIDs - but these devices have operating systems, apps and actually do something specific, instead of not having any given task in particular. And “hackable” stuff already exists - the OpenMoko mobile phone has deliberately places tie points on its mainboard so you can poke it in various ways.

Instead, this thread asks the question “should a hobbyist device like what I describe exist?” Reply if you agree. :smiley:

So, what would my conception of this device be like? Well, for starters, the primary concern and focus would be size. Not only would I want mine as small as possible but also as thin as possible - say, 5mm. Since the Qualcomm TG01 smartphone has come out which uses the 1GHz ARM Snapdragon CPU and yet is 9.9mm thick, I completely believe a thin device is possible, even for hobbyists.

Secondly, I’d want my device to look “finished”, or capable of passing as a “consumer product”, if you know what I mean - most DIY hobbyist electronics projects look half naked most of the time, and even when they are finished they’re in relatively gigantic project boxes and such. It’s true!

CPU

My device probably wouldn’t use a Snapdragon - at least not initially :lol: - but nonetheless I would want a relatively fast CPU on it… say, 100MHz. It would also need graphics (required) and audio acceleration (if possible).

RAM

In addition to that I’d want a decent amount of RAM: 8MB at least, more if possible. 32MB sounds nice.

Screen

I’d want a color touchscreen that filled as much of the device’s footprint as possible, or, in other words, means the bezel would be really thin. The TG01 has a touchscreen and it’s thin, so I believe this is possible. At the very least I’d want 64k colors, however 16bpp would be very nice.

Communication

After that, I’d probably want some kind of communication - so a wireless module would be in the works. I don’t know if production-grade wi-fi or bluetooth modules are smaller than XBee modules; whatever’s smallest and eats the least amount of power is what I’d want here. The idea is that the unit communicates with a small USB-powerable “base” that’s not far away, which can from there communicate with the 'net, local devices, and so on.

Storage

Something simple and flexible like a microSD card slot would probably be a good idea here. In addition to that, 16MB of onboard flash could hide amongst the other stuff on the board for bootloading and/or programs you wanted to keep on the device.

Sound

Like I hinted in the CPU section, sound would also be a component part of a device like this - at the very least I’d want audio out, but a line/speaker input wouldn’t go astray. However, if sound isn’t possible, then I guess it could be omitted.

To summarize:

  • 100MHz CPU or close to that (I wouldn’t want less than 80MHz) with graphics and audio acceleration

  • 8MB RAM at the least

  • Some kind of thin, color touchscreen

  • microSD card slot and 16MB or so of onboard flash memory

  • Audio support, if possible

  • This would be something of a “finished-looking” equivalent to an Arduino which you could carry around with you and wouldn’t attract “that looks like a detonator :shock:” (or similar) stares from people 8)

I have no idea if something like this is even possible…

I wrote a similar post to this a while ago - [here it is. For some reason, nobody responded, which is why I doubted my idea but mentioned it here anyway, since I think it does actually have a bit of potential - even if just a bit…

-dav7](http://www.embedded.com/tigforums/thread.jspa?messageID=6182#6182)

2

Don’t want to disappoint you but what you described is known as “development board” and there are thousands of these available :wink:

Except of the appearance part since they’re just boards…

3

I understand.

Development or prototyping boards have their place for sure, but you can’t really take a dev board out with you and use it like you could a consumer device in real world situations like restaurants, at shopping centers and so on, not unless you had some kind of enclosure for it at least, and even then it’d probably look pretty bulky.

I realize that what I want is probably just a pipe dream, but I thought I’d get it out there anyway. Thanks.

4

Any linux hackable PDA would do this. Something like the iPAQ. Im sure theres others.

5

I mentioned that, actually. Looks like I’m trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

6

to be honest, I have no idea what you are asking for. I suggest if you have a specific application in mind, start with that. Starting from “generic do anything” will be an exercise in compromise. One size definitely doesn’t fit all. and how could it?

7

I see what you mean.

To be honest, I’m more of a software person than a hardware person, I’ve never owned or played with a microcontroller or anything of the sort - I’ve only seen pictures and videos - so this idea is more opinion than solution and is, pretty much, an exercise in futility and, like you said, compromise.

I guess I’m just looking for something that’s simple to program from scratch so I can learn the ropes, and something that looks “good” (in that I can take it out with me and play with it without attracting stares).

Maybe when the money isn’t so tight and my computer’s a bit newer I’ll get a simple micro and see if PICs, AVRs and the like are what I think they are, and whether I’m not barking up the wrong tree :smiley:

Thanks anyway.

I did consider what I’d use a device like this for though:

  • Testing various types of UI designs and figuring out UI concepts that were the fastest and easiest to navigate

  • If audio worked out, using it as an awesome homemade MP3 player with a gigantic display :smiley:

  • Possibly using it for video

  • Simple web browsing (I could have fun making a (simple) web browser!)

  • If I could get E-Ink displays for it, I could use it as an “active note” - I could leave it somewhere (in the house, of course), enter a message on it either by on-screen keyboard or via the radio and have an “OK” button to acknowledge that the message was read by its recipient, and this data could immediately be fed back to me

  • I could use it as a communication platform - I could chat to people in realtime using the device, or chat between devices if there was more than one

  • Some of the CPU’s pins (if there were any left! :)) could be exposed to the outside world so that things like sensors, data acquisition devices and extra modules could plug into the unit easily, in the same way as the Arduino.

-dav7

8

Yous post is very confusing. You talk about not having money and then describe some projects that take real bucks. How much are you willing to spend now? You can get into PICs and AVRs for well less than $50.

9

I’m more of an idea person than anything else right now, since I don’t have the resources to do anything about them yet.

Some of the ideas I’ve had in the past are pretty good but some - like this one - are completely redundant.

10

iPod Touch pretty well covers most of your requirements.

11

no offense but great ideas are a dime a dozen. What is important is the ability bring an idea to fruition. Reminds me of Michael Keaton in “Night Shift”

12

All of what you want can be had in a $25 garage-sale PC. So it runs Windows? Big deal. There’s nothing that says a PC must have an OS. There’s nothing stopping you from programming it from the bare metal: it’s just a matter of knowledge and skill.

Here’s a suggested plan of action if you’re serious:

  • Get a free/thrown away PC

  • Get the low-level PC docs. Free on the web if you search.

  • Probably need an EPROM or Flash programmer since you’ll be writing your own BIOS.

  • Get an x86 cross-compiler. Must be a cross-compiler since it won’t be able to run on the target machine. You can probably use gcc and make sure you don’t use any of the runtime libraries.

  • Write a small program to toggle the speaker bit and make it buzz.

There. That oughta keep you busy for a few months! If you can do this with a PC, then the next step is porting your code to an x86 compatible handheld that you can find cheap on eBay (like one of the old hp pocket computers).

Enjoy!!!

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macegr: True, but it runs OS X (or some form of it)… but yeah, physically it’s pretty much the closest I’ll probably get from the “devices that currently exist” market.

Philba: Yeah, I hate it… it’s sad :frowning: :x

lyndon: Interesting idea. Definitely something to think about, at least in theory. Writing my own BIOS (albeit a laughably simple one) would indeed probably keep me busy for a few months, and most certainly sounds interesting!

Here’s another somewhat less opinionated/dreamy/optimistic, somewhat more practical reason for a device like what I’m looking for: I’ve discovered that I’m “allergic”, if you will, to EMR. The kinds that computers and CRTs emit (at a relatively high screen resolution like 1024x768). A device like this would have such low EMR (because it’d be, like, running off probably less than 7 volts) it probably wouldn’t cause all the symptoms I’m experiencing right now including acute fatigue, brain fog and inability to concentrate/focus on “deep” thought. I’m currently looking into why this is occurring and am having breaks of 4 or 5 days or more between “sessions” on the computer at the moment. At worst, a device like this would be something I could use to communicate and such without having terrible side effects from its use.

-dav7

14

Do you mean electro-magnetic radiation? There is no evidence whatsoever that emanations from computer systems have any effect on people!

Leon

15

It’s more likely the noise/refresh rate or the contrast of the monitor rather than EMR.? Could even be your ambient lighting…

Tried different monitors?

16

I used to work on computer ergonomics at HUSAT, many years ago. There are many myths about problems arising from intensive computer usage - they are all caused by individuals’ health problems and/or poor ergonomics.

Leon

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at least now we know what you are talking about. Resolution has nothing to do, qualitatively, with what is being emitted from a computer. If it’s quantitative, then wear a thicker tinfoil hat.

Dav, I suggest you spend more time digging into the details of things and not be just an “idea guy”. Like I said, ideas are a dime a dozen. It’s the genius that can sort the good from the bad.

Now, several bits of instructive dialog from the the movie I mentioned earlier. Bill is played by Michael Keaton:

Bill: I'm an idea man Chuck, I get ideas, sometimes I get so many ideas that I can't even fight them off!
---------------------------------------
Bill: So there I was at the Blackjack table with all my wash 'n' dries... did I tell you I had the idea for them first?
---------------------------------------
Bill: OK, here's an example. Watch out, stand back.
[speaks into tape recorder]
Bill: This is Bill. Idea to eliminate garbage: edible paper. You see, you eat it, it's gone. Eat it, it's out of there!
---------------------------------------
Bill: What if you mix the mayonnaise in the can, WITH the tunafish? Or... hold it! Chuck! I got it! Take LIVE tuna fish, and FEED 'em mayonnaise! Oh this is great.
[speaks into tape recorder]
Bill: Call Starkist!
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leon_heller:
Do you mean electro-magnetic radiation? There is no evidence whatsoever that emanations from computer systems have any effect on people!

Leon

I see. I’ll keep that in mind.

FartingMonkey92:
It’s more likely the noise/refresh rate or the contrast of the monitor rather than EMR.? Could even be your ambient lighting…

Tried different monitors?

Noise/refresh rate? Hmm… I run this CRT at 85Hz. Anything less seems to give me a migraine - for example, when I tried to make a video card “go” with my Linux installation but didn’t have the technical prowess to pull it off, I was stuck at 60Hz while trying to figure out how to make the card push the refresh rate higher, and I eventually felt so “fried” I gave up because I couldn’t think, had dinner and once I was in bed and the light off felt a lot better, IIRC. Similar, but less intense, situations have produced similar, but fortunately less intense, results.

Oddly, I live in Australia where the TVs use PAL which scans at 60Hz, but that doesn’t hurt.

And while I’ve used a few different CRTs, there have been an LCD or two in the mix. Switching between CRTs has usually meant a bit of eyestrain for about 3 to 5 days, then my eyes get used to that individual display’s parameters.

leon_heller:
I used to work on computer ergonomics at HUSAT, many years ago. There are many myths about problems arising from intensive computer usage - they are all caused by individuals’ health problems and/or poor ergonomics.

Leon

Well, health-wise I have a few issues that I’m working on getting to the bottom of, and ergonomically I’m sitting on a chair that’s probably less than optimal for this table. Before this chair I was sitting on a supposedly “good” chair but once I found out that it wasn’t all that good I subsequently got rid of it.

Philba:
at least now we know what you are talking about. Resolution has nothing to do, qualitatively, with what is being emitted from a computer. If it’s quantitative, then wear a thicker tinfoil hat.

Okay… then maybe my problems are light-based then. What could be going on here? I’ve just come home after going out and on the bus home I managed to score a seat behind someone working on a website locally on their EEE PC, which I thoroughly enjoyed watching (:D) but after the 5-10 minute trip found myself a little worse for wear mentally - “tense” would probably be the best word for it. It only lasted a couple of minutes after getting off the bus but found it easier to get irritated by things than I’d normally be.

Philba:
Dav, I suggest you spend more time digging into the details of things and not be just an “idea guy”. Like I said, ideas are a dime a dozen. It’s the genius that can sort the good from the bad.

Now, several bits of instructive dialog from the the movie I mentioned earlier. …

I thought I remembered that movie! I’ve seen that one on TV, and I can - to some extent - relate to Bill. I do see myself as something of an idea person - much more so in the past than nowadays, mostly because my visualization skills don’t seem to be what they used to (but I’m hoping that’s just a small dip in my abilities). I do have a small catalog of what I think are “good” ideas, but I don’t really know. I try to get into the details where I can, but it gets overwhelming quickly… but practice makes perfect, so meh, I’ll keep trying. :stuck_out_tongue:

This is honestly the last place I thought I’d be talking about this kind of stuff… heh. Anyways. Thanks for your input guys! I really do want to know why this is happening :?

Another thing I think I’ll mention is a very strange phenomenon caused by my older style PS/2 and to a lesser extent a perfectly ordinary Toshiba Satellite laptop from 1998. I think it destroys theories that it’s the light output from the screen that’s causing some of my symptoms.

About 2-3 weeks ago, I tried to play my PS/2 for the second time since my mum bought it. And the same thing happened that happened the first time I tried to play it as well.

Hooking the PS/2 up to the TV, flicking the switch and all that don’t produce any incredibly horrible results - in fact, I don’t really feel much at all. However, after an hour of playing, I’ll start to feel complacent. This progresses to a form of compulsion after a few hours, which starts out hardly noticeable, but gets progressively more aggressive. By the following day the PS/2 is at the top of my priority list in terms of what I want to do, I’ve got “tunnel vision” and I can’t help but feel bored by most other things.

By 2 to 3 days I start to feel incredibly bored by most anything except the PS/2, then a huge shift begins to take place - everything slowly switches from just being boring, a consciously refutable emotion, to being associated with… death. I’m not joking. Instead of being annoyed, irritated or angry or whatever else with certain situations, I’ll think about suicide, and at one point I think I even started thinking about killing other people, buildings blowing up, and so on.

Along with this I become less and less capable of learning from situations and reacting with even mildly open-minded thought, I use “autopilot” for more and more situations, am less flexible, more easily depressed/downhearted and think extremely negatively about situations including those that are game-related. Because of this - and note this - I was switching the TV on and off throughout the day. I’d play Gran Turismo 4, be unable to round a particular corner and fail a training course for the umpteenth time, give up, watch TV or turn the TV completely off in frustration, then repeat the whole cycle again. Because I was on autopilot I’d be unable to take hints from the game as to why I was failing and try the same methods again and again - the same methods that were simply not working.

Around this point I accepted that this was what would happen whenever I used the PS/2 and subsequently stopped using it - which was hard, because my mindset was such that I saw everything non-PS/2 as boring and that the PS/2 was all that mattered and I had a constant “why do I exist” and “why does life matter” type thing running the whole time as well.

At the point I accepted I couldn’t use it (the TV was off at the time and had been off for probably 10 minutes at least), I switched the PS/2 off using the switch at the back, and the moment I did that my mood improved! I only had a small “rush” of “yay, life is good”, but it was enough to prove to myself that once and for all the PS/2 was extremely bad for me and I could never use it again outside of a test situation of some sort.

The laptop, however, was a somewhat different story - not as bad as the PS/2 but objectionable nonetheless. I’m guessing that its LCD is somewhat to blame for the extreme fatigue I feel - it’s much more acute with this laptop (and its LCD) than my desktop (with its CRT) - but even when I close the lid (switching the LCD off naturally) and use an external display I have a certain amount of brain fog, inability to focus/concentrate very well after a prolonged (3-5hours) amount of use.

Lastly, I have High-Functioning Autism and while I don’t possibly know how that may have a part to play here…? Of note is the fact that last time I was on the computer I felt much worse for wear and unable to think clearly as I am now, but since I’ve started taking something to support the structure of my brain I feel much better while being battered by whatever is pummeling me while I use the computer. :stuck_out_tongue:

-dav7

19

Seek help.