This may have been suggested before, but it sure seems like a simple and good idea to me.
Add a checkbox to each board that I order from BatchPCB that allows anyone else to order copies of it as well. Maybe I could get a URL that anyone could click on to add that board to their basket and order as many copies as they want. (Obviously this would be on their order, not mine.)
That way I could ‘share’ a design with the world, and they could order as many boards as they want through BatchPCB, and everyone benefits. I get an easy way to say “I don’t sell boards, but if you click on this link, you can buy some of your own”, BatchPCB gets the profit, and the buyer gets a one click way to get the board they want.
The problem I’m trying to solve is that there are people who know how to to basic soldering, and maybe how to write code, but who want to build some design that I’ve come up with. But they don’t know what a Gerber is and they don’t want to spend time figuring out how to copy the files from my website, upload a design, get the DRC back, etc. They just want to pay the stinkin’ $25 and get a board in 3 weeks.
If I could just give a URL that says ‘click on this and give them your credit card number and you’ll get your board’, it would make the design that much more accessible. Maybe nobody would use it. But it seems like a really simple ‘convenience’ to add to the BatchPCB site that some people would really like.
The other option, of course, is for me to order 10 boards, and then have people buy them from me. But I would rather not have to do that. Some people enjoy that - I just don’t.
EmbeddedMan:
The problem I’m trying to solve is that there are people who know how to to basic soldering, and maybe how to write code, but who want to build some design that I’ve come up with.
Greetings *Brian,
I agree with your basic model to step away from the loop and have your customers use self-service to get copies of your IP (Intellectual Property).
EmbeddedMan:
But they don’t know what a Gerber is and they don’t want to spend time figuring out how to copy the files from my website, upload a design, get the DRC back, etc. They just want to pay the stinkin’ $25 and get a board in 3 weeks.
Depending upon the level of sophistication in your designs (and how robust the design is to amateur construction), you still have to provide documentation and technical support. Or, is your offer NCNR, use at your own risk, no support provided? What if I follow your instructions, spend my money on the PCB fab, and the project doesn’t work? Where does the liability rest? With batchPCB? You?
EmbeddedMan:
The other option, of course, is for me to order 10 boards, and then have people buy them from me. But I would rather not have to do that. Some people enjoy that - I just don’t.
I’m not picking up any vibes that doing business with you is going to be smooth sailing. Why not grant your design to a third party (a magazine, a vendor, BatchPCB or equivalent), and let them manage the business for profit? Perhaps you can get some Royalty agreement, but as you’ve abdicated the business risk you might not get a share in the profits.
I don’t intend to be rude, but you sound a bit old and stodgy here. He is not looking to start a business. There are numerous projects out there that are lightly documented where a person could use this to order a board without having to worry about getting the right revision, submitting the files themselves, etc.
See BlackfinOne, autopilot, my pico robot, etc. People don’t mind creating and sharing their designs with like-minded individuals who don’t want to/can’t do the board layout but can assemble a PCB and work from a schematic. The people who build and play with the designs understand that for a nearly free PCB they can expect little to no hand-holding unless the creator has a lot of free time.
The risk is entirely with the buyer, and they wouldn’t have it any other way because the alternative is to pay 6x the price. A big bold disclaimer would make this clear.
I think the idea has merit, and although SFE probably wouldn’t want to maintain a searchable database of projects with questionable value, perhaps they could find a way (or perhaps one already exists) to allow you to link to a re-order page for a design that has been ordered before.
I don’t intend to be rude, but you sound a bit old and stodgy here.
Zac,
Correct! I just turned fifty…
I’ve seen good intentions go bad, and if as you suggest, the projects are offered “As-is Where-is” (as noted in my post) then there should be no problems.
I am not out to make any money on anything I do at this point. I have made my (limited) ‘designs’ public domain. See http://greta.dhs.org/UBW for one that SparkFun picked up, and is now selling. (for a profit) There are others in the works. I receive no form of compensation - as per my request. Anything I do is because it is fun for me to do - if you buy a UBW and it doesn’t do what you want it to do, then I will try to help you write your own code to get it to work, but if I drop off the face of the Earth, I certainly hope that people don’t feel like they are getting riped off.
There are lots of happy people using the UBW design (see the USB section of this forum for a few examples) some of whom have bought SparkFun product, and many of whom have just taken the design and made their own version of it. If it is useful to you, use it. If not, please ignore it. But I certainly don’t promise anything other than what is freely available on the website.
I would never commit to providing any support for a product, and then go ask people to order their own boards and built it themselves. That’s just asking for a nightmare. My designs are all without any agreement to them - they are simply published on the website. I hope this clears things up for you.
Just copy the link you get in your “DRC approved” email and give that out.
The check= bit is the magic part that allows someone to view that order #.
If you don’t have that email around anymore, just view your recently ordered products lists and grab the link from there. Boards aren’t tied to a certain account - but you need to know the magic value to be able to get access to them.
Both of you bring up some really important points. What I’m seeing is the development of a web “meta-site,” one whose content builds on the content of another. This is what “web 2.0” is all about, people.
This is how I see it so far:
- The need is for a website for hardware hackers to go to and share their designs.
- The common factor bringing them together is the ease with which a profesionnally manufactured PC board can be designed and built (using the resources of sparkfun.com and batchpcb.com)
- The audience is
- People interested in building electronic projects
- People without the ability or desire to go through the PC board design process
- Heathkitters (sorry, I invent new words all the time)
- The audience may eventually become directly involved and make their own contributions; the web site should, in general, support that path
- The focus is:
- The fab itself
- A "BOM tool" for people to create part lists
- A "code tool" to organize code for programmable ICs
- A "Q&A tool" for people to discuss the design
- A "revision control tool" which allows previous versions to exist, but also tying them together in a sequence (no need for a new project page); previous revisions can be made "read-only" if they're obsolete
- The users (and the audience) need to be able to buy things:
- Buy the actual PC board for a given project
- Buy items from the parts list
- The web site should be able to provide links to suppliers of the components
- The web site could also be a "one stop shop" to buy everything (and have the back-end deal with the different vendors)
- The future path of this "project portal" would be:
- do the same thing, but with IC programs (PIC,AVR, ATMEL, &c) as the focus
- Inductor design (switch-mode power supplies)
- Project case design and manufacture (build your own PalmPilot, anyone?)
- Who pays for all this?
- The nice thing about bits is, they're easy to change
- The initial costs (hosting, domain, etc) can be absorbed initially
- To start with, the basic functions need to work (order PCB, order parts) by sending the user to a web site (batchpcb,mouser, digikey) and filling their cart auto-magically. The system should create/track account IDs for the websites they order from (members only)
- The community around this has enough skill (and moxy) to build and host the site
- Boards purchased through the web site could get a kickback from batchpcb.com **or**, could mark it up before feeding the order to their system
- Parts purchased through the web site could be marked up, say, 20%
- Part purchases could be consolidated into periodic "buys" coordinated with the release of the fab by batchpcb to the board house (anyone out there like to buy parts and repackage them?)
Okay, who out there is game to try this? I believe the basic web site could be created in phpBB; however, there are lots of ways to do it – just depends on who’s willing to do the work Personally, I serve up my own domains and web pages, and I’m willing to host the mess. Sparkfun may be too, but I expect they’re not going to let a bunch of hackers on their servers to fool around with an idea…
Okay, let’s get some comments going here! Try to refer to the sections above by number, or quote them. We could have something up and running by July 1, if we’re all into this…
bigglez:
EmbeddedMan:
The problem I’m trying to solve is that there are people who know how to to basic soldering, and maybe how to write code, but who want to build some design that I’ve come up with.
Greetings *Brian,
I agree with your basic model to step away from the loop and have your customers use self-service to get copies of your IP (Intellectual Property).
EmbeddedMan:
But they don’t know what a Gerber is and they don’t want to spend time figuring out how to copy the files from my website, upload a design, get the DRC back, etc. They just want to pay the stinkin’ $25 and get a board in 3 weeks.
Depending upon the level of sophistication in your designs (and how robust the design is to amateur construction), you still have to provide documentation and technical support. Or, is your offer NCNR, use at your own risk, no support provided? What if I follow your instructions, spend my money on the PCB fab, and the project doesn’t work? Where does the liability rest? With batchPCB? You?
EmbeddedMan:
The other option, of course, is for me to order 10 boards, and then have people buy them from me. But I would rather not have to do that. Some people enjoy that - I just don’t.
I’m not picking up any vibes that doing business with you is going to be smooth sailing. Why not grant your design to a third party (a magazine, a vendor, BatchPCB or equivalent), and let them manage the business for profit? Perhaps you can get some Royalty agreement, but as you’ve abdicated the business risk you might not get a share in the profits.
Personally, I serve up my own domains and web pages, and I’m willing to host the mess. Sparkfun may be too, but I expect they’re not going to let a bunch of hackers on their servers to fool around with an idea…