Panelization Question

Archive BatchPCB
1

Hi - I’ve looked at the instructions of several PCB houses and I cannot understand panellization.

Specifically, if I select to $30 multi-panel project at Gold Phoenix, do I receive separate individual boards? They make all kinds of mention about V-score, routing, customer must panelize, etc, etc. I’ve go no clue what all of that means.

I’ve seen a few blogs where people get separate boards, but it seems to say the opposite on the website.

Also, if you want (for example):

5 copies of board 1

8 copies of board 2

27 copies of board 3

Will they do that, or do they just take the total area of the 3 boards and try and jamb as many of the trio into 155 sq in (ie - you get equal copies of each)?

I’m lost when I look at the instructions at these fab houses. Could someone define:

-panel

-project

-board

Thanks

2

bt101:
Hi - I’ve looked at the instructions of several PCB houses and I cannot understand panellization.

Specifically, if I select to $30 multi-panel project at Gold Phoenix, do I receive separate individual boards? They make all kinds of mention about V-score, routing, customer must panelize, etc, etc. I’ve go no clue what all of that means.

I’ve seen a few blogs where people get separate boards, but it seems to say the opposite on the website.

Also, if you want (for example):

5 copies of board 1

8 copies of board 2

27 copies of board 3

Will they do that, or do they just take the total area of the 3 boards and try and jamb as many of the trio into 155 sq in (ie - you get equal copies of each)?

I’m lost when I look at the instructions at these fab houses. Could someone define:

-panel

-project

-board

Thanks

BT,

The prices differ depending on what you want. A multi-project panel has different board designs on it.

Not sure about the “project” but here are the others defined:

Panel = multiple boards connected together, usually all the same design.

Board = A single individual board used to make whatever.

I haven’t ever gotten individual boards from Gold Phoenix, I usually get v-scored boards and “snap” them apart. It is a easy procedure, and can be done after the boards are assembled.

V-scoring is just that, the panel is scored with a v shaped router bit between the boards. This leaves a nice break point when separating the boards.

Tab routing, leaves the boards all attached, but with a small tab between the boards. Some tab routed boards also have mouse bites (small lines of drill holes) to separate them.

If you need a design panelized (one board made into an array, like 2 x 4, two rows, 4 columns), we can do it. We won’t charge for doing it (hope I don’t start getting multitudes of boards to panelize).

They also do a “step and repeat” service. This is where they take your design and make as many copies in the available area as possible. They usually separate “step and repeat” service.

I hope this helps explain what all the different options are. Just remember, any added designs (different boards on the same panel) costs extra. The pricing can get pretty complex when trying a single panel with 3 different board designs contained on it.

James L

3

I looked at the GP site a while ago but I’m pretty all the answers to your questions are there. Multiple designs per panel are ok but a) you have to panelize it for them, b) they charge a fee per additional design and c) they will only separate if the designs are all the same size. Charging extra per design seems unreasonable since they are just taking your art and using it - no extra steps for them.

use gerbmerge to create the panel - it’s free.

4

Thanks for the replies. OK, I’ll take all my individual board designs and put them all onto one big drawing that would have (for example):

x copies of board 1

y copies of board 2

z copies of board 3

I guess what really throws me is this blog where it seems the guy did make a big drawing with all of his boards on it. On this drawing, he had 2 copies of one board, so he should end up with twice as many of of that board as the others. But instead, he got equal copies of each board. He didn’t complain about it though. On the plus side, they did take his big drawing and got rid of all the extra space between the boards, thereby giving him more boards. I thought though, that the instructions say that they do not do that (ie the customer must panelize). So I’m left wondering.

http://www.nearfuturelaboratory.com/200 … pcb-stuff/

In addition, he shows the package that came from GP and it clearly shows individual boards (no snapping). That makes sense as I can’t imagine why they would try and mail a huge flimsy panel.

5

From GP’s website you would think that you have to do the panelizing yourself. Maybe they just say that so that if they do the panelizing for you you won’t complain if you don’t get the quantity of each board that you wanted?

6

All of the prototype board houses I’ve worked with will only accept your multi-design project if you panelize them yourself. I think this is so that they only have 1 set of gerbers per order, which would make it much easier on them, and keep costs low.

Now to answer a few of the outstanding questions in this thread:

Not all board houses will individually route multi-design projects. Gold Phoenix will, PCB Fab Express will not. Likewise, most board houses will not vscore, while Gold Phoenix will. GP will allow up to 6 designs for the multi-design fee, while many others charge per design. (Yes, I am a fan of Gold Phoenix.)

If you want GP to route your individual designs, just make sure that you have a board outline drawn for each design.

If you want your designs individually routed, each board can be a different shape. However, if you want your designs vscored, each design in the panel must be the same size (vscore can only do straight lines). For a vscored design, you would also panelize the designs differently (i.e., no gap between designs.)

When you panelize your board, GP will take the group of designs you sent, and replicate that to fill your square inches of board. Even though you have to panelize your designs yourself, your board house may re-arrange the individual boards to make better use of board space. If you really need x of A, y of B, and z of C, do the math, and panelize them up so that the ratio is correct. Also make sure that you tell your board house your requirements.

7

I have to admit, the GP site is a bit confusing but it sure looks like you have to panelize. I’d be a little leery of them breaking my panel apart and redoing it.

8

nhunsperger:
All of the prototype board houses I’ve worked with will only accept your multi-design project if you panelize them yourself. I think this is so that they only have 1 set of gerbers per order, which would make it much easier on them, and keep costs low.

Now to answer a few of the outstanding questions in this thread:

Not all board houses will individually route multi-design projects. Gold Phoenix will, PCB Fab Express will not. Likewise, most board houses will not vscore, while Gold Phoenix will. GP will allow up to 6 designs for the multi-design fee, while many others charge per design. (Yes, I am a fan of Gold Phoenix.)

If you want GP to route your individual designs, just make sure that you have a board outline drawn for each design.

If you want your designs individually routed, each board can be a different shape. However, if you want your designs vscored, each design in the panel must be the same size (vscore can only do straight lines). For a vscored design, you would also panelize the designs differently (i.e., no gap between designs.)

When you panelize your board, GP will take the group of designs you sent, and replicate that to fill your square inches of board. Even though you have to panelize your designs yourself, your board house may re-arrange the individual boards to make better use of board space. If you really need x of A, y of B, and z of C, do the math, and panelize them up so that the ratio is correct. Also make sure that you tell your board house your requirements.

Thanks. I’m stuck on one last item. You mentioned … “if you want individual routing… and if you want V-score…”. On the GP page it mentions tab-routing and V-score, and does not mention “individual routing”. What is individual routing and is that an option at fab houses?

9

bt101:
Thanks. I’m stuck on one last item. You mentioned … “if you want individual routing… and if you want V-score…”. On the GP page it mentions tab-routing and V-score, and does not mention “individual routing”. What is individual routing and is that an option at fab houses?

Individual routing is where each board is individually cut apart using the routing bit. This is the default for board houses (unless they say that you must depanelize your multi-design project, in which case they route a square around the group of boards, and you get to individually route your boards at home).

Tab routing is like individual routing, except they don’t route all the way around the boards. This leaves little tabs where the PCBs are held to the frame. You then snap the boards out of the frame after soldering. This is great for non-square boards when you want to solder them up as a batch. There is a variation on this called mouse bites, where a series of holes are drilled in the tab to make snapping the boards apart easier. When you snap them out, the edge looks like a mouse took a bite out of your PCB.

Lastly, V-scoring is where a v notch is created on the top and bottom around the board edges such that the PCB thickness is reduced. This allows you to snap the boards apart after soldering them as a batch. This option only works for rectangular boards.

  • Nathan
10

GP definitely will route all boards (i.e. you’ll get a pile of each board). But, yes you should use something like gerbmerge to panelize. The text file containing various settings for gerbmerge expects to see a repeat value for each board, and will try to add that many of the board to your panel… so you can have x copies of board 1, y copies of board 2 and so on. I do think they’ll try to squeeze in an extra where they can. I’ve had an order that I thought was pretty well laid out for panelization of 5 boards, but ended up with one extra of one of the smaller boards, despite them requiring me to send a panelized gerber to begin with. I’ve not tried v scoring or tab routing options with them, but I just wanted a little pile of my boards all cut out and ready to use anyway.