Panelization within 4 days? Waited 9 and counting

Since June 6, 06 I’ve had two designs (one for five 2 layer boards, and one for two 4 layer boards) ‘waiting panelization’.

This has me a bit irate, since these projects are both for work (grad student), and my professor has already had his card billed. Ordering was timed to go along with all the other part orders, and I’m going to look like an as* when I tell him the project is delayed by a week.

Why is batch PCB violating its service assurances (stated on front page of BatchPCB no less) while still billing customers?

Since June 6 2006? Do you mean July 6th?

Anyhow, regarding the panelization status - it well could be that the status just has not been updated - I can get back to you on this tomorrow once we’re open and I have access to the pcb database.

Regarding billing - its billed as soon as the order is placed automatically.

Cheers,

–David Carne

Hi, I count 5 days depending on when u submitted the order on the friday.

Sparkfun moved house on Friday, so a delay would not be unexpected.

pittuck:
Hi, I count 5 days depending on when u submitted the order on the friday.

Sparkfun moved house on Friday, so a delay would not be unexpected.

Greetings,

I have found the BatchPCB service to be erratic. I’m currently waiting for a project that was received and billed by BatchPCB on 06-21 (twenty-five days ago). After three daily email requests (last week), the third email was answered and I’m told the ETA is now 07-23 at best (32 cal days).

The current BatchPCB order tracking has only two status tags (Panelized and Shipped and updating these seems to be a low priority).

After waiting the forecast time for a shipment (20 cal days) the only recourse is to bug BatchPCB and likley wait another fab cycle.

So far this year I have logged the following performance:

2949: 02-09 to 03-09 22 Cal days, 15 Biz days.

3210: 04-05 to 04-19 13 Cal days, 10 Biz days.

3225: 04-23 to 04-08 14 Cal days, 11 Biz days.

3369: 04-25 to 05-11 16 Cal days, 12 Biz days.

3626: 06-21 to ??? 25 Cal days and counting.

I’ve been billed $629.25 by BatchPCB so far this year.

Comments Welcome!

Well looks like there have been a few more problems recently. The service they offer is not on a set time and the orders are probably are not a priority at the plant, so sparkfun moving and general delays could soon add up.

If you want to get PCB’s made within a set time then you need to go to the fab house and pay the premium for your board being the only board in that specific run.

Anyhow, im getting some chemicals et all to make a PCB @ home, then once ive gone though testing will get it manufactured by sparkfun for final testing.

Ive had boards before and they take time, sometimes.

As you can see - those first runs you got are mostly well before our estimated time of 19 days!

The 25 day panel unfortunately got missed at the fab and a new one is being rush shipped to us. We’re hoping to get it this week, but we won’t have more information until we have a tracking number in hand for the parcel containing the boards for that package.

We do try to update the tags as things happen - but sometimes those tags don’t always get updated right away, as we’re usually busy actually getting the designs panelized + ordered. Now is an especially bad time for us as we’re right in the middle of finishing up our big move.

BTW - we also run our own internal prototype designs on the same panels that are used for batchpcb prototyping. It so happens that I’ve got a few of my designs on that same panel you’re waiting on Bigglez, so I’m hoping it comes in soon too!

Again, I want to state that we can offer these low prices because of our flexible leadtimes. Most of the time we’re right on, the occasional panel gets delayed, and that is what allows us to be so cheap, especially for small designs, and low quantities.

Cheers,

–David Carne

busonerd:
We do try to update the tags as things happen - but sometimes those tags don’t always get updated right away, as we’re usually busy actually getting the designs panelized + ordered. Now is an especially bad time for us as we’re right in the middle of finishing up our big move.

Greetings Dave,

I understand the limitations of the service. I’m a big fan, inspite of my current frustration. I don’t see any improvement in customer service over the past six months.

busonerd:
Again, I want to state that we can offer these low prices because of our flexible leadtimes. Most of the time we’re right on, the occasional panel gets delayed, and that is what allows us to be so cheap, especially for small designs, and low quantities.

This is understood. However, as the service is geared to long cycle times any minor hiccup doubles the delivery time. I would like to see a heads up warning of delays so that I can use my time better. A tracking system with sporatic updating and only two tags is part of the problem not part of the solution. I don’t think it should require three daily emails to get a satus report - SFE is consitently fast in billing my credit card the same day as I order!

Comments Welcome!

SFE is consitently fast in billing my credit card the same day as I order!

Thats because a human doesn’t touch the billing - its all done machine to machine on the site. In fact, the order doesn’t even get in our hands until the billing is successful.

The problem for us is, we have no information for the period between sending the order to the fab [panelized] and when we have tracking info. However, I’ll forward your suggestions onto the person that handles batchpcb - and we’ll see what we can do.

Cheers,

–David Carne[/quote]

bigglez:
So far this year I have logged the following performance:

2949: 02-09 to 03-09 22 Cal days, 15 Biz days.

3210: 04-05 to 04-19 13 Cal days, 10 Biz days.

3225: 04-23 to 04-08 14 Cal days, 11 Biz days.

3369: 04-25 to 05-11 16 Cal days, 12 Biz days.

3626: 06-21 to ??? 25 Cal days and counting.

I’ve been billed $629.25 by BatchPCB so far this year.

Comments Welcome!

Average cost of $126 per order. Wouldn't it be cheaper/faster to use another company when ordering in these kind of sizes?

japroach:

bigglez:
I’ve been billed $629.25 by BatchPCB so far this year.

Average cost of $126 per order. Wouldn't it be cheaper/faster to use another company when ordering in these kind of sizes?

Greetings roach,

Perhaps. I was using another service before 2006, but typically they have a minimum invoice goal of $300 (meaning my $630 would only buy two projects).

Are there other services that can beat BatchPCb delivery and invoice below $100 per project without tooling charges?

Two sides, PTH, solder mask and silk on both sides, 24 sq inches or smaller (limit of my current EAGLE license).

Comments Welcome!

Again, I want to state that we can offer these low prices because of our flexible leadtimes. Most of the time we’re right on, the occasional panel gets delayed, and that is what allows us to be so cheap, especially for small designs, and low quantities.

From batchPCB website directly beside the upload new design option:

Order on any day and your board will be put onto panel a maximum of 4 days layer.

Orders 3677, 3680 Ordered: Friday July 6, Still Awaiting Panelization

On saturday the 14th, I wrote an email to support asking why the process was not proceeding, which has not been answered yet.

On Sunday July 15th busonerd wrote

Anyhow, regarding the panelization status - it well could be that the status just has not been updated - I can get back to you on this tomorrow once we’re open and I have access to the pcb database.

This is losing the comedic edge it used to have.

I use PCB Pool:

http://www.pcb-pool.com

Prices are reasonable, the quality is excellent and I get my boards in a few days. They also accept PCB files from many EDA packages including the Pulsonix software I use.

Leon

Cannibal:
On saturday the 14th, I wrote an email to support asking why the process was not proceeding, which has not been answered yet.

Cannibal,

The current excuse is that SFE moved to a new office. This should be a one time event.

In my (documented) experience it takes three emails before the BatchPCB admin replies. There is a lack of energy…

As for comic relief, I quote from a recent BatchPCB email: “Sorry about the delay. This has never happened before.”

I don’t mind waiting twenty calendar days for good quality boards at hobby level pricing and no tooling charges, but to wait forty days after being the first to notice the original delivery date has been missed is not good for anyone.

Comments Welcome!

leon_heller:
I use PCB Pool:

http://www.pcb-pool.com

Greetings Leon,

I used existing data to price a PCB similar to one already fabbed by BatchPCB.

PCB_Pool is EUR 144.45 ($199.11) for one piece. Ouch!

BatchPCB was $55 ea for two plus $17.20 (Total $127.20)

Not sure if I selected the correct feature for a head to head comparison:

PCB-POOL Prototype double sided

Length in mm: 150

Width in mm: 100

File name: Minitron Mbrd X1

File format: EAGLE

Delivery time: 8 working day (WD)

Soldermask: yes, sides different

The price includes soldermask for 34.00 EUR

Position print / Silkscreen: yes, TOP and BOTTOM

The price includes silkscreen for 34.00 EUR

Would you like to buy overdelivery at half price if available? no

Do you require electrical test? no

What on earth is “overdelivery”? (I assume you buy the material started to guarentee the order is filled - if things go well the extras can also be used).

Comments Welcome!

They often make one or two extra if there is some spare room on the panel. You can buy any extras at a few $ each. It would probably make them about the same as BatchPCB if they are available. Also, they can do 6/6 mil and 0.3 mm vias as standard and they are very fast, depending on how much you want to pay. They have just shipped an order of mine for two boards that was placed 11 days ago (8 working days service), I should get them tomorrow. Price was 76.63 euros (board is 74mm x 60mm) plus 30.50 euros for courier delivery. All their boards are made in Germany and I deal with their Dublin office.

If they notice any problems with the files when processing them they always phone me, and if there is a problem with the boards they replace them very quickly at no cost. On one occasion I placed an order for $400 worth of boards, they got them wrong, sent replacements and didn’t charge us anything for the job. I think they’ve only made two mistakes in the 8 years or so I’ve been dealing with them. The other was putting the solder mask on the wrong side of a board.

They are very nice people to deal with, and always give me a big welcome and a few freebies when I meet them at shows like Nepcon.

Leon

Leon,

Thanks for pointing these guys out… for my 4 layer projects they’re 30% cheaper and will have the products here this calendar year.

Thank you.

Hi,

The 3 emails is due to the current bactchpcb guy being so overworked that it takes a while to get around to the batchpcb support. We’ve got that email box aliased to me as well now, so I can take care of anything thats getting left behind.

Regarding me not having an answer, its because I didn’t have an answer yesterday. Didja just want me to make something up ;)? The lack of an answer was due to the computer having the answer being packed away in a shipping box somewhere. In any case, it looks like your order has not been panelized, but it will to be panelized today, and the board fabrication started tomorrow.

I’m not quite following where the 40 days is coming from bigglez - it looks like we’re only at day 26 on you [because that panel got dropped by our fab]. If I’m incorrect here, please let me know!

We’re happy to refund and cancel the orders if you would like.

Cheers,

–David Carne

leon_heller:
All their boards are made in Germany and I deal with their Dublin office.

Leon,

Thanks for the clarification (and generous endorsement of PCB-Pool)!

The kicker is that these PCBs must be shipped from Europe, where we currently have unfavourable exchange against USD.

Most if not all of my hobby PCB work is as prototypes. While I usually buy a second copy of a design for help with debugging, I seldom use more than one PCB. On the smaller boards I usually buy enough to spend $100 (to amortize the S&H and other fee). It is expected that the first of anything will be hacked… So copies of the first design loose value quickly. (One can only use so many “green coasters”).

Perhaps there is a cross-over point when more than one piece is required, and the uncertainty of BatchPCB delivery is risky under the pressure of commerce? Then it would make sense to find another vendor.

I’m interested to hear what others are doing.

Comments Welcome!

Bigglez - I’m happy to say your boards shipped yesterday!

Cheers,

–David Carne

busonerd:
I’m not quite following where the 40 days is coming from bigglez - it looks like we’re only at day 26 on you [because that panel got dropped by our fab]. If I’m incorrect here, please let me know!

Dave,

A twenty day turn service that fails (for whatever reason) will take another twenty days to recover. Perhaps the recover can be accelerated (more so if it was the fab’s fault)? It would be unwise to promote the recovery as less than twenty days as it just propagates the delivery problem.

Comments Welcome!