PCB Layout needs Bill Gates

Community PCB Design
1

Hello,

I have now lost count of the number of interviews that i have been to where the Managing Director asked me which PCB Layout package i use…

…when i reply “Eagle”, the Engineers who are present hoot with laughter and assure the managing director that Eagle is just a “hobbyist” package, and far inferior to their software which may be PADS, Altium etc etc…

Consequently, i do not get the job.

I am convinced that a “Bill Gates” character is needed to solve this problem.

-because “professional” PCB Layout packages cost a fortune and most cannot afford to buy them in order to get versed in them.

…this, i am convinced is holding back the entire electronics industry.

Even when you are in a company, -there are usually only a limited number of dongles for the company’s PCB package, and consequently few engineers get the opportunity to use the “professional” packages.

Just like Bill Gates did with microsoft, -virtually giving away mega-valuable software, we need the same thing to happen in the world of PCB Layout software.

In other words, either some institution needs to produce a very cheap, but extremely professional PCB Layout package…or Governments should give Eagle whatever funding it needs to make Eagle the equivalent of PADS and Altium etc.

One huge advantage of Eagle, is the free forum and web info and other helpful info that is available for it.

-This fantastic thing cannot be underestimated, -there is nothing quite like receiving info from people who’ve just been up the learning curve that you are currently on your way up.

I find that in short periods where i have had access to “professional” PCB Packages, the help is pretty dismal,

-usually there’s some website where you keep angrily being told to “Go away and read the manual” or “its all in the manual” etc etc.

And the respective manuals tend to be written in an “ever so” professional manner, - a manner that often isn’t conducive to understanding.

I would be so very grateful if you could forward this to your Senator, or your Governor, or your Local Parliamentary representative.

The Electronics industry will then grow much faster, and it will be much cheaper to start electronics companies.

2

Did you take examples of your PCB designs with you when you went to the interviews? That might have impressed them, especially if they were the sort of designs that they use Altium for.

Professional packages aren’t all that expensive. Altium slashed their price a few months ago (out of desperation, they’ve been losing money for years), and Pulsonix starts at 2x as much as Eagle. They typically get the job done far quicker than is possible with Eagle, the time saved will mean that they pay for themselves when a couple of designs have been completed, compared to Eagle.

Leon

3

High-end PCB packages will never be as cheap as PC operating systems or “Office” etc, simply because the number of licenses sold is much lower. Companies need to recover their costs.

4

treez:
I have now lost count of the number of interviews that i have been to where the Managing Director asked me which PCB Layout package i use…

…when i reply “Eagle”, the Engineers who are present hoot with laughter and assure the managing director that Eagle is just a “hobbyist” package, and far inferior to their software which may be PADS, Altium etc etc…

Consequently, i do not get the job. .

To which I would reply something like, “Yes, there is no comparison between Eagle and , which is why I’m excited about having the opportunity to work with a tool like . However, let me show you some of my designs that I’ve been able to wrangle out of Eagle.” You then present your portfolio. Nothing speaks volumes than being able to produce a high quality product from what is perceived to be an inferior tool.

5

riden:

treez:
I have now lost count of the number of interviews that i have been to where the Managing Director asked me which PCB Layout package i use…

…when i reply “Eagle”, the Engineers who are present hoot with laughter and assure the managing director that Eagle is just a “hobbyist” package, and far inferior to their software which may be PADS, Altium etc etc…

To which I would reply something like, “Yes, there is no comparison between Eagle and , which is why I’m excited about having the opportunity to work with a tool like . However, let me show you some of my designs that I’ve been able to wrangle out of Eagle.” You then present your portfolio. Nothing speaks volumes than being able to produce a high quality product from what is perceived to be an inferior tool.

Pretty much what I would have said. I think this is pretty much what people face when they build their skills using “hobbyist” tools and then seek a job. But I think when people are hiring they also tend to expect candidates to know the software they’ll be using. Like designers should know Illustrator and Photoshop, even if they could squeeze some impressive results out of GIMP… Likewise for Blender vs. 3DS Max and so on.

So personally my approach would be like riden says, except also make sure to learn one or more of the apps they’re probably looking for. Buy a copy, if you can afford it. Do they have student editions of these things? Can you take a class somewhere?

'Course, if it were me interviewing (scary thought) I’d be a lot more inclined to look for what you can do, rather than what you used to do it. I think it’d be all about the portfolio. Can you show them, through your projects, that you understand the problems they need to have solved? And if you don’t know their software, do you at least understand the problems and principles involved well enough to be able to learn the software quickly?

Though again on the other hand, if you can do project A on Eagle, that’s not necessarily more impressive than having accomplished the same thing on their pro package - it’s not your ability to deal with inferior applications that they’re interested in, it’s your ability to make circuits… They pay for the expensive software because, if it reduces the time you have to work on solving a circuit problem, the extra cost of the software was worth it…

And anyway, it’s also possible that they’re dissing your choice of software to see how you’ll react. XD Sometimes this is a good way to get someone’s guard down and see what’s really going on in their head - or at least filter out the set of candidates who don’t have their act together enough to roll with the punches in an interview.

6

I’ve used Altium extensively in my last job, and it’s now my package of choice. In school, however, I did get started on Eagle, and that’s what I mentioned when interviewing for that job. They were more interested in the types of PCBs i’d designed than the package. Most companies hiring for entry level design positions will realize that not everyone has access to different tools… And once you’ve been working for a while, you’ll get exposure to more of the “professional” packages.

In the end, though, the tool is just a tool, and doesn’t replace knowledge and experience with PCB design. Downplay the differences between PCB software packages, since you can always learn a new package. Knowing the principles of good PCB design is much more important, and is the same whether you’re using Eagle, Pulsonix, Altium, Pads, or a black sharpie.

What you need to play up is your knowledge of PCB design itself, not packages. I can design a perfect PCB using Eagle if I know what I’m doing, but on the flip side do the same design completely wrong with horrible performance in Altium if I don’t know what I’m doing when it comes to PCB Design…

7

HINT: you do not want to work with those people anyway.

Windows only shops, and snooty engineers like that deserve to go out of business. Sadly, they tend to stay around.

I use FreePCB, an open source tool. It works JUST FINE, thank you.

We spend our money ON PCBS not software. Our business is selling hardware, not the PCB package.

If you came to me, even using Eagle or whatever package, I want to see some samples. If you are competent it will show.

So cheer up, find clients that appreciate your work. You will be happy, your clients will be happy.

8

Bill Gates? Are you serious!?

Please do not confuse their abilities to suppress/buy their competitors with actual innovation (although I will admit they are now doing some real research). It would be a better world if Microsoft never existed and I am glad there are many areas they have not infected.

btw: I have been using Eagle for a couple of years. Its very archaic in many ways and I am ready to move on to circuit capture and board layout software that has some sense of elegance. Only one schematic, board, or library open at a time sucks!

9

While I agree that Microsoft was ruthless as it climbed its way to the top, had microsoft never existed the pc landscape would be quite different and in many ways worse, especially in the area of software. while there may be upsides to other OS’es ,like Macs User friendliness and Linux’s “power” and low system resources, and the lack of viruses for both, Windows runs on 97% of all computers giving a almost universal dev platform for software. you can quibble over pcb design software, but they all run on windows, and while you may have to learn a new package for a job, at least you dont have to know 50 different operating systems.

10

htmlfreak:
While I agree that Microsoft was ruthless as it climbed its way to the top, had microsoft never existed the pc landscape would be quite different and in many ways worse, especially in the area of software. while there may be upsides to other OS’es ,like Macs User friendliness and Linux’s “power” and low system resources, and the lack of viruses for both, Windows runs on 97% of all computers giving a almost universal dev platform for software. you can quibble over pcb design software, but they all run on windows, and while you may have to learn a new package for a job, at least you dont have to know 50 different operating systems.

on the other hand, OSX and virtually all linux distributions run on a UNIX backend. There's your universal development platform... it's lower resource like you mentioned, but it's also more stable. Not to mention that it can be "throttled" for the masses rather nicely like Mac has done with OSX. However, it still retains its power if you know what you're doing. (i switched to OSX from a linux machine. everything I could do on linux, I can still do in OSX. If I didn't have my experience from linux though, OSX would just be another pretty operating system... terminal is your friend)
11

I use gEDA and it seems to do the job for me.