pittuck:
file by file checker, with a zip upload for the final order submission.
i a zip checker just too difficult? it seems it would cut down on pilot error.
do you have a mockup for the final UI? i’d like to see a page where i specify all pertinent files, then click one button and get an answer (rather than the current 3-step method of check top layer, check bottom layer, check drill file).
thoughts?
3 check at once is possible, BUT much harder to work with when handling errors, i could run the two layer files in one screen tho.
Also the ZIP uploading is possible, BUT it will be implossible to get the correct files out, there i no way to easily tell apart file types from names or content. Perhaps steve can correct me tho…
http://www.sparkfun.com/~mpittuck/ is a mockup, i am working on the drill file screen at the moment, then i need to make the ‘registration’ page which will create a temporary account through which the order will be handled. (ie all emails will go though an online interface, which will allow easier customer tracking and identifiaction, as well as faster email back times due to templated emails and like)
The drill and layer files will be not be saved after being checked, and there are escape methods for files which fail the online test, but pass offline ones. When you get to the end of the process you input your order number and upload the zip file, fill out a form which can include comments and then click email. Nathan (sparkfun) will then get an email containing the file (or a link to the file stored online) and from there they cas handle each case.
If errors occur during the sparkfun test, the customer will be contacted through the online interface, and converse that way, with the opportunity to upload new zip files. Orders will be added to batches and sparkfun will be able to send out emails when a batch has been sent for production and when they have been returned, and when they have been sent out. At this point accounts are deleted and any other problems sorted through normal email channels.
But got quite a way to go till i get that far!
First of all, I want to say thanks to the folks at SparkFun for offering such a cool option for PCBs. You’re doing a great job, and I feel for you having to deal with all the idiotic questions.
You might want to add a link from the Custom PCB page to “Build Your Own Printed Circuit Board” by Al Williams. It’s a good tutorial and reference for using EAGLE. That and the the SparkFun sample CAM file were the main things I needed to create a board successfully (of course, I also don’t mind reading and experimenting…).
Anyway, the PCB process can be overwhelming for beginners (I was there not too long ago!) and suggesting a resource for beginners to look at for explanations may help cut down on the basic questions and design problems.
EAGLE can check board/schematic consistency and has a (customizable) DRC, but they only help if you know they’re there and use them!
Cathy
Suggestion:
I think the price should be $2.50 / inch per submission. If it takes 4 submissions to correct the errors then the price should be $10/sq inch to cover your costs. The next time the same user submits the same board they would get the $2.50 price and everyone wins.
Simple / easy to administer. (and encourages users to test their files before submitting)
EDIT -
At $5.00 / inch you will still lose money on high maintenance customers and your best customers (low maintenance / high profit) will be forced to go direct to Gold Phoenix.
Clint
Well $5 is fine, hopefully the new system can get it down a couple of dollars. Hehe
pittuck:
Well $5 is fine, hopefully the new system can get it down a couple of dollars. Hehe
My point is that the $5.00 / sq inch price will also be unprofitable / frustrating. The charges need to reflect the cost of support.
Clint
Hi Clint - nice idea! But do keep thinking on it.
Unfortunately I don’t have the balls to tell a customer that they have just spent $15 for 6 square inches. It failed DRC so please order again. We are keeping your money. Have a nice day.
I would shut down the PCB service today. We are not making any money. Please go to GP! But I keep the service up and running because I feel like we are still providing a valuable service for the small guys. Martyn is fevourishly hacking away at DRC and I see light at the end of the tunnel.
We now send a link to the customer for the $2.50 service after their design in DRC kosher. I believe this is the best option for the time being. We offeset some admin fees with $5/in and then get the customer to come back for more at the $2.50/in service. This is known to crack dealers the world over as the ‘hook’.
-Nathan
sparky:
Hi Clint - nice idea! But do keep thinking on it.Unfortunately I don’t have the balls to tell a customer that they have just spent $15 for 6 square inches. It failed DRC so please order again. We are keeping your money. Have a nice day.
I would shut down the PCB service today. We are not making any money. Please go to GP! But I keep the service up and running because I feel like we are still providing a valuable service for the small guys. Martyn is fevourishly hacking away at DRC and I see light at the end of the tunnel.
We now send a link to the customer for the $2.50 service after their design in DRC kosher. I believe this is the best option for the time being. We offeset some admin fees with $5/in and then get the customer to come back for more at the $2.50/in service. This is known to crack dealers the world over as the ‘hook’.
-Nathan
Unfortunately I think you will still lose your shirt at $5.00 / sq in trying to hand-hold someone through the process with a one-off 2 sq in board.
100% in sync with automating the DRC process.
Clint
sparky:
I would shut down the PCB service today.
If you do decide to shut it down, I hope you give us at least a few weeks notice. I have submitted two orders, and I’m planning a third in a couple weeks. If I knew you were shutting down, I’d hurry up and get that last order in.
Jake
No plans to change anything yet. We will certainly let all our customers know if anything changes.
-Nathan
Just my .02 cents: (Btw, hi people)
I’d personally considering having a startup cost + per sq.in.
For example, $7 for startup + $2 per inch.
This would, of course, hurt people wanting a 1 inch by 1 inch board, but the moment you exceed 2.5 inches, you begin saving money. You could always have a “whichever is cheaper, $5 per inch or $7 + $2 per inch” policy as well. And if Pittuck finishes the online DRC and you upload via that, it’ll choose automatically.
The advantage is for any slightly larger boards, and I assume the biggest problem is getting everything to align properly, etc. during import, so a bigger board wouldn’t be a bigger problem, is that you end up not paying a excessively high price for said large board - I’ve contemplated ordering a 30 sq.in board, and it becomes rather pricey after the change. Especially annoying, seeing as it’s a circle and you waste a whole lot. (LED wall clock)
Of course, it’ll be a little more expensive than the initial $2.50 deal for most orders except really big ones (above 15 sq.in, you begin saving money), but it might work for you?
And if a board has serious errors, you could always have an extra charge. And if the customer doesn’t want to go ahead with it, you could always have a non-refund on the DRC fee ($7), if that’s desireable.
After all, you did the DRC job, and just because they’re not satisfied with it, well.
Anyway, a bit off-topic:
I just wanted to thank you guys at SPE for the excellent service you provided when I ordered my stuff, I did intend to post about it but it slipped my mind. Most impressive shipping time too.
J. E. Angell
Is the $2.50 for repeat customers still in service? I am expecting a board back this week, and already know that I need an additional copy (along with a companion baord to go along with it). As far as I'm aware, my DRCs were all clean as per the e-mail from Ben. $5/sq-in is a good deal, but if you are still offering $2.50, that is even better. if so, how do I take advantage of it? (If I'm not qualified, explaining what I did wrong would be helpful) If not, that's fine, but at least make it clear?sparky:
We now send a link to the customer for the $2.50 service after their design in DRC kosher. I believe this is the best option for the time being. We offeset some admin fees with $5/in and then get the customer to come back for more at the $2.50/in service. This is known to crack dealers the world over as the ‘hook’.-Nathan
Email Ben @ the prototype submission email address for the URL, if ben had u on record he should be able to give u the URL.
The $2.50 link is sent out if we can import your order without having to guess at your drill format. It seems that a large number of people are using various versions of eagle. We have come to find out that eagle (seemingly) has different defaults for the NC drill file format than our older version of protel. Out of the 25 or so designs I get for each panel 1 or 2 actually have the 2.3 trailing format that allows us to use what little automation we have been able to implement for DRC. I have quit telling people in our email confirmation that the format was not optimal because it seemed to invite more questions.
The answer to: “Do I qualify for the discounted rate,” is probably no. To verify I would need to dig up your order number and go back and look at the files you submitted, overall this would undermine the premise of the $2.50 price reward as it has been implemented to try and minimize time spent looking at submitted designs and digging through orders. However to answer the second half of your question: " is there an URL I can use to submit ($2.50) orders?" the answer is YES! As you read through the thread to which you posted you will find Sparky’s posting that essentially allows anyone to use the $2.50 deal. Below is a quote from his posting April 27 2005:
“For all of our repeat customers - we really do appreciate your business! If you have learned how our DRC process works, and can get your software to export files in a fashion we can use, we would like to offer you the $2.50 service: http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php? … itemid=405”
Posting the $2.50 link in the forum is a bit of a treat to encourage readership. My hope is that cooperatively through the forums we can continue to improve the process for everyone.
Ben:
Posting the $2.50 link in the forum is a bit of a treat to encourage readership. My hope is that cooperatively through the forums we can continue to improve the process for everyone.
I appreciate that! I used the $5 for my first submission because I could not tell IF it would pass DRC. I used the FREE site and your online checker and everything passed, but I am not positive it it was OK.
If this goes well on your side and if I get back what I intended, rather than what the program gave me, then I will order a bigger job. I will take advantage of the $2.50 for that
What rules checker do you use? I think I set the Eagle DRC to fit your requirements, but I am not positive. There are so many rules that Eagle can have set, that I think I could get it customized to exactly your needs. Can you post for us a link to an “official” eagle DRC that is customized to your needs? THis might make it more likely for us to give you a good design the first time.
Thanks for the excellent service! I am thinking you even BEFORE I get my first board, just because your serivce is so clearly a labor of love. If my first PCB is not quite right, it will not be your fault!
-Tony
I think the online DRC checker could go a long way toward eliminating design problems, but if I run my design through the online checker, and every checks out okay, then I send in my design, and it flunks (due to something that the online checker missed), do I still qualify for the $2.50 deal?
nope,
the online checker cannot check everything, the new version is much better, but not full proof.
[removed by me as i have a thick skull and nearly spoiled the surprise]
regards,
Ben:
Posting the $2.50 link in the forum is a bit of a treat to encourage readership. My hope is that cooperatively through the forums we can continue to improve the process for everyone.
So, does that mean that I can use the $2.50 service right off the bat? Or do I need to submit a successful design using the $5.00 service first, before I can have access to the lower price?
…not trying to take advantage, just confused. $5.00 is low, but $2.50 is lower 
pittuck:
[removed by me as i have a thick skull and nearly spoiled the surprise]
Dammit! So when do you think this will be available, pittuck?
It will probably eat your design and light your computer on fire. But it’s almost there.
More later.
-Nathan
hmm…
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[/quote]Still great to have the URL