I know it’s been a long while, but here is the current status of the SMT service.
My company designs and builds it’s own products. To this point I have been placing the components by hand. Let me tell you, the parts I’m placing require very accurate placement. (SPC1000-D01) Look it up if you don’t believe me.
We had to do some evaluating of different Pick and Place machines to find the correct one for our purpose. It should place just about anything someone would want on a SMT board.
We are planning on purchasing the machine soon. There will be some lead time for the machine, so stay tuned to the forum for when we go online.
The website is coming along nicely, but we are not publicizing the address till the site is finished.
We will start out with some kind of promotional pricing to get customers.
We have not set these promotional prices yet, but will once the machine is received and run.
If you are interested, please feel free to drop the company an email @:
lil_brother_llc at bellsouth dot net (convert to email address)
I received an inquiry by a potential customer asking about the panelized boards and how they were to be sent to the customer.
After a lengthy discussion (read ad nauseam) with my partner, we both agreed that a panel cutter will, almost certainly be purchased at the same time as the Pick and Place.
This will allow us to sent our customers their boards already cut to the appropriate sizes.
Before you get all excited, there is a drawback. Because Batch PCB does not offer v-scoring, the board dimensions may vary to a slight degree. Panel cutters use the v-score as a guide. It is undetermined at this point how accurate we will be able to cut Batch PCB panelized boards. But we will do a test to inform potential customers before they use our service.
Now the other draw back, the panel cutter manufacturer states a “3mm from the board edge component placement” is needed to insure no components will be damaged during the cutting process. This will also have to be tested. For most panels this is not a problem, but for the “extreme high number of boards per panel” people, it may have drawbacks.
Our progress is slow, so please be patient.
We are working on getting the website up. When it is up and all bugs worked out, we will then let new customers join. This will tell us how well the service is going to be accepted.
I’m sure a laser could do better than that, but we are not planning to buy a laser. A laser with enough wattage (CO2) and fast enough would cost about $150,000.00 and we are not willing to spend that.
James L
funnynypd:
3mm is kind big though. I though laser cut can do better than that.
Not really. One of my colleagues was working on a laser welding machine for PCB assembly line before. Actually he damaged many components because of the output of laser power is out of control. He asked me many questions about the machine; I never get those figured out.
Actually, the company got the used laser machine for almost free. It did take a while (9 month, it was really a long time) to make it working with the assembly line.
propellanttech:
I could use some feedback on what software other people are using to design their boards.
I use Osmond PCB, for Macintosh. It produces standard Gerber files, including a solder paste layer (I normally send that off to Pololu to get a laser-cut mylar paste stencil made).
It also produces a file called PIK.TXT, containing pick-and-place data. Here’s the first few lines from one:
Designator Part Midx Midy Refx Refy Padx Pady TB Rotation
U2 SOT23-6 0.963 1.231 0.963 1.231 0.963 1.231 Top 0.0
C1 0805 0.750 0.875 0.750 0.875 0.750 0.875 Top -90.0
(the file is actually tab-delimited, it’s probably not going to look too good here.) It seems like that would be exactly what you needed, except for one thing - many of the footprints in Osmond’s libraries are defined with the origin at pin 1 rather than the center of the part, and I think it’s the origin being reported here. I suspect I would have to fix that for every footprint I use before the file would be of any use to you.
I appreciate the information…and think the PIK file may be of use.
I do not think you would have to re-orient all of the origins.
When we are starting up…I may ask for a pik file and a layout to see how the new machine deals with it.
Because this is new software, we are not sure exactly what will be required from the customer. I’m sure a top cream file (eagle) and some other gerbers will be necessary.
The procedure will smooth out after the first week or two. After we have learned what works the best (takes the least amount of time).
We will keep the forum updated on our status. I hope there are a few people interested in having their smt mounted.
I believe at this point our prices will be better than most companies out there. (In the US anyway).
James L
jasonharper:
propellanttech:
I could use some feedback on what software other people are using to design their boards.
I use Osmond PCB, for Macintosh. It produces standard Gerber files, including a solder paste layer (I normally send that off to Pololu to get a laser-cut mylar paste stencil made).
It also produces a file called PIK.TXT, containing pick-and-place data. Here’s the first few lines from one:
Designator Part Midx Midy Refx Refy Padx Pady TB Rotation
U2 SOT23-6 0.963 1.231 0.963 1.231 0.963 1.231 Top 0.0
C1 0805 0.750 0.875 0.750 0.875 0.750 0.875 Top -90.0
(the file is actually tab-delimited, it's probably not going to look too good here.) It seems like that would be exactly what you needed, except for one thing - many of the footprints in Osmond's libraries are defined with the origin at pin 1 rather than the center of the part, and I think it's the origin being reported here. I suspect I would have to fix that for every footprint I use before the file would be of any use to you.
I have read this thread with interest, and although I must say have yet to make any devices that have not been hard wired, and surface mount devices is limited to breakout boards, this service together with batch pcb might be the push to needed to learn Eagle and get going. Would 20-28 pin QFNs represent any problem?
I should have stated (I forgot because it was talked about in private messages) the our service is going to provide panel cutting.
This allows our customers to supply panels (or array’s) of boards and we will separate them after assembly.
QFN’s should not present a problem. Only Ball arrays will present a problem. Ball arrays really require an X-ray to be positive all of their pads are soldered correctly.
Any chip mounting that can be visually inspected will be warrantied through our service.
I’m going to allow a sneak peak at our site. I want everyone to understand…it is not finished. I have been working hard to get everything worded right, and working to get the Database section worked out.
This should give people an idea of the service. If you spot something you do not understand…send an email. It may help us find problems with the wording of the website.
OT:
I have read this thread with interest, and although I must say have yet to make any devices that have not been hard wired, and surface mount devices is limited to breakout boards, this service together with batch pcb might be the push to needed to learn Eagle and get going. Would 20-28 pin QFNs represent any problem?
Took a look at your FAQ… your contact info shows an address in the USA, but your site has a .NZ domain, so I have to ask: What country would I be shipping parts to? What currency are your quoted prices in?
Also, what exactly are your requirements for fiducials? I found some info on the subject at http://www.tkb-4u.com/articles/other/fi … ducial.php, which shows several commonly used shapes - are all of them compatible with your equipment?
Yes I have an associate in New Zealand who is hosting the webpage for the moment. We will change to a dedicated server sometime next year. We want to get the service up and running before taking on another expense. (Even if it is a little one)
The address listed on our contact page will be the address all items will be shipped to.
The whole site is quoted in US Dollars.
All fiducials are recognized, but the circular one would be the best.
You can read all the guidelines for fiducial marks on the webpage you posted. Remember the mark is for a vision recognition system to calculate for board misalignment. All vision systems work the same.
As a minimum we require global fiducials. We recommend 3 (2 and an origin) to insure your parts are placed accurately. If you panelize (array), panel fiducials are not required.
The better you adhere to the guidelines the less amount of trouble you have.
If you use eagle…I’m sure you can search the internet and find fiducial marks for the library.
James L
jasonharper:
Took a look at your FAQ… your contact info shows an address in the USA, but your site has a .NZ domain, so I have to ask: What country would I be shipping parts to? What currency are your quoted prices in?
Also, what exactly are your requirements for fiducials? I found some info on the subject at http://www.tkb-4u.com/articles/other/fi … ducial.php, which shows several commonly used shapes - are all of them compatible with your equipment?
Just as an update…we now have the webserver permissions fixed.
I would like for everyone who is interested to register as a user and play around in the protected area. Don’t worry …if you want to make a pretend order…that is ok for now. I’ll kill all the accounts and orders before our business comes online for production.
If you have any questions…let me know.
I know there are some things missing, Like a page to tell the user what the order is going to cost before submitting it. I’m working on that part.
I’m also working on the registration page as well…but you’ll have to bear with me…there is only so much time in the day.