has anyone here ordered the flex PCB from Pheonix (or anywhere else, for that matter)? Anything crazy different?
I’m really interested in getting this design idea going, and would like some feedback before diving in.
I just got a quote from these guys and they were by far the lowest of the 5-7 quotes I received. I am ordering some pcbs from them, but have not ordered flex circuits just yet, as we are waiting for final funding on that project. I’ll try to remember to let you know how it goes. http://www.pcbinternational.com/
Wow, the pricing those guys have is really good. Please let us all know how they work out for ya!
–David Carne
I’ve placed about half dozen 2 and 4 layer rigid proto orders with PCB International and their quality has been fantastic. As for flex circuits, I know that one of my professors has been using them for some complex designs and seems to be very happy with results. I’m about to place an order myself - just waiting for a few more quote to come in but their price is about 30-40% less than any of the FPC quotes I’ve gotten so far.
Hrm,
EDIT3: Alright, matter taken care of, they apologized and ensured me that the posting above was not the intent of PCBI and Chin Poon management, and I’m expecting the above posting to disappear of its own accord. I think what I had posted here is unnecessarily adversarial now that they’ve apologized.
However, until the posting above disappears, please note that it is, indeed, fake. [See the posting by PCB International]
–David Carne
David, really I saw this thread and put my 2 cents in. I am always looking for a better deal on flex circuits. I got quotes from $575 (pcb int’l) all the way from $1600 (next best) to $3500.
I’ll be getting my pcb’s from them today. They are doing a service very similar to gold phoenix. Nice thing is that they answer the phone. Shane from gp can be a bit tough to get ahold of over the phone. It seems they batch jobs and then have them shipped in one lump to San Francisco, where they are parsed out and sent to final user.
Needless to say, they may have been trying to promote via spam.
Ryan,
Oh, its not you I’m worried about, you’ve been around forever and have lots of credibility! Its stevenrs5 ;). Do let us know how the PCBs turn out / post pix of the work quality - it’d be nice to have an unbiased [read: Real] review!
–David Carne
[Edits: they’ve apologized, I’ll be nice]
I’m reading this thread with interest as well. I really do need a source that has shorter lead times than BatchPCB. I did look though PCB International’s website, and find it fairly convincing, but that astroturfing thing is disturbing. An acknowledgement and apology (or explanation, if conclusions are being jumped to) would go a long way, as would, of course, a positive report from Ryan about his experience.
Sylvie,
You could try gold phoenix - their quality is fairly decent along with pricing. They’re the manufacturer behind BatchPCB. Leadtime direct from them is around 10 days at standard pricing including shipping to north america.
PCB International looked really good, especially price wise on 4 layer / 6 layer designs for fine trace sizes; and I was about to place an order; but before doing so I got on google and became suspicious.
I’m hoping we get a decent explanation as well, since their pricing looks really attractive, but I’m just not sure if I trust them.
–David Carne
I run a small business too, and sometimes when sales are low astroturfing doesn’t seem like a bad idea. Especially if you’re paraphrasing what real customers have actually said.
However…it’s just not honest. If I want to post one of my products as a possible solution to someone’s problem, I’ll go ahead and say “this would probably work, and yeah I do make and sell them”. I think it’s much more valuable to be a member of the community and to show that the person responsible for the product is available and listens to individuals.
If this flex PCB guy came out and said who he was, then even with one post people would be thinking “hey that’s cool, he is accessible if I have any problems or questions.”
Dear Forum Members,
These postings were brought to our attention by a company PCBI employee and I must say we deeply apologize for the situation. Like many firms – all SEO, Google ad, etc. are conducted by third party agencies and we do not make excuses, but sometimes these activities are done without our direct knowledge. With that being said, we will demand our agencies and employees (if applicable) to cease all forum posting activities. We know first hand that spam can greatly detract from the quality of a forum as we run message boards in various countries.
With regards to our business integrity, we are a subsidiary of Chin Poon Industries - the 3rd largest printed circuit board manufacturer in the world by market valuation ( http://www.chinpoon.com ) and have developed a solid standing world wide for over 20 years. We try out best to provide quality products to a worldwide customer base and we hope this particular instance does not effect your view of PCBI or our parent corporation. Also, we thank the individual bringing this to our attention – but some of his findings appear to be unfounded we and don’t believe calls to one of our offices posing an a customer is necessary.
Again, we humbly apologize for the situation and you have our assurance that this behavior will not condoned nor conducted by PCBI our any other subsidiaries in the future. We wish you success in your electronic projects and we hope we haven’t disturbed your experience to much in this excellent forum.
Well, I believe that you’ll knock it off now, given whats come to light. I hope we can all get along better on the forum now ;).
RE: calling your offices - I did speak to someone this morning; specifically, I asked about 3 things - whether multi-design panels are ok, the specifics regarding whether tented vias were an additional-price option, and to alert you to an issue regarding your website. At that point, I was considering becoming a customer, and may still become one in the future depending on what Ryan reports back re: how his boards look. I’m not THAT interested in a bunch of forum posts as to waste long distance minutes. That was actually in preparation for placing an order, and before placing it I decided to google to see if anyone else had used you in the past, so I feel using the term “posing” is a bit unwarranted.
Your board prices are really quite good, along with your capabilities; and if Ryan reports favourably on the quality + mfg time; I’d be happy to consider using you as a supplier. I have no intention to “discredit” PCBI in the community; just to ensure that all info here is as accurate as possible. Also - if I do end up using you in the future, I’d be happy to report my results back to the thread. I don’t have anything against you: I just like transparency.
Cheers,
–David Carne
Edit: spelling, phrasing, I no write so good when writing quickly
I’d call that a very responsible response. I’m fine with it.
I am looking at Gold Phoenix as well, of course, and I’m willing to give more than one source a try to get a feel for how things go.
Thanks, all. And David - nicely done. That’s a much more helpful way to deal with this than the usual “coming in guns-a-blazin’”.
Boards came in and they look great. They were well packaged. I have only assembled 1 of the boards thus far and it works great (see for more details http://www.picbasic.org/showthread.php/ … -Nikon-D70)! It took about 15 days to get my boards, but the shipment was delayed from Asia supposedly by the infamous volcano. If you are counting business days then it was near their quoted time of 8 days.
I had more than 3 designs so here was the pricing breakout:
Thanks for your inquiry. I just wanted to information you that we have an extra charge for 3 or more panelizations. However, if an extra panelization charge is incurred we automatically upgrade you to the 310 square inch special free of charge (meaning that you will have 5-6 pcs of each design).
The pricing breakdown will be as follows:
$94.99 (310 square inches)
$55.00 (5 unique parts)
$33.00 (2-3 day shipping via UPS)
My only issue with their service was that the items were shipped via USPS Priority Mail which costs $8.75 ish versus the $33 of UPS. I only just realized this as I am making this post and will bring this up with them in an e-mail.
Overall, experience was pleasant and I would order from them again despite the shipping cost mixup.
Cool, looks good. I’m thinking of ordering a 4 layer panel from them monday; since their pricing is way better than gold phoenix for what I need [5/5/12 design rules, yay BGAs]. I’ll post a review once they come in!
Cheers,
–David Carne
Okay, overall I think this thread has been positive for a number of folks. To summarize I am always on the lookout for good board houses. Without question I can recommend [PCB International as giving A+ and 5-Star Service. Based on this thread and some other e-mail exchanges they fully refunded my order, I did not request this and was happy with their service, just to show that they fully stand behind their service and their commitment to customer satisfaction. Needless to say I will be placing more orders with them for both pcbs and flex circuits.
PS Their flex circuit pricing is really unbelievable. I received some outrageous quotes that really made flex circuits not an option. This really opens up some opportunity for other neat projects.
I am sharing an e-mail from David Jean at PCB Int’l.
Hi Ryan,
Sorry for my late reply – for some reason this went into my spam
mail. We actually do appreciate the generally favorable review and we
have no
issues
with customers sharing their experiences, whether they may be positive
or negative. The refund was just to demonstrate that we are in fact a
very reputable company and to hopefully answer any doubts you have
concerning us.
Also I would like to take the opportunity to make a couple things clear:
- Like the vast majority of firms in this industry, we count lead
time by working days and I think it is a practice that is well
understood. Of course
we can make this more explicit – but our methodology is clearly
stated in our FAQ section and is included in our quotation form under
WD (Working
Days) – which you can view for your reference.
- I can guarantee you that we make no money off customers with
regards to shipping. PCB International does more production/mass
production than prototyping and because our shipping cost (for manual
quotes) doesn’t vary,
we lose money for shipping in the majority of instances. Anyways, I believe
that the final price of an order is more important than the pricing
for individuals segments. For instance, there are companies out there
that charge $50 for shipping 1 board.
Hope this answers your questions and have a great day.
Sincerely,
David Jean
They seem quite nice. The same guy offered me 200 sq in for the $95 price since I was a student. (although apparently you somehow got 310 sq in for $95 too?) They quoted the shipping cost as $32 for me, which is a bit high, but I guess that’s how it goes.
I just need to figure out a way of using all that board space…
Hey all, I said I’d follow up when I got my boards back, so here it is:
I sent my order in on the 19th. I got my boards back today [would have been sooner except for a holiday here in canada].
Total cost was $129.99, for which I got 10 boards. Build quality is excellent, with the exception of one minor silkscreen blemish, [same on all boards, so probably a mask issue], but its such a minor issue that I don’t really care, and it doesn’t impact the functionality at all. The boards have definitely been e-tested [I can see the flying-probe marks with a microscope] which is great. Most places don’t e-test their boards, and I’ve seen boards from GP before that would have been rejected at e-test.
All in all - I’ll be using them again. I think GP is slightly cheaper for the lowest spec board once you factor in shipping; but PCBI does tighter tolerances + smaller drills at that price, and you get E-test included, which is $20 from GP. Also, PCBI gives you any soldermask / silkscreen color you want, which is an added cost option with GP. Layer alignment is also excellent, better than I’ve seen from some north american fabs, certainly better than some of the low cost off-shore fabs I’ve used.
I’ll attach photos later.
Cheers,
–David Carne
Just one quick question that’s been alluded to in discussion, do they allow multiple designs in the panel (with complex shapes?) at the same price?
I’ve got some funky shaped PCBs for my walker that I’ll be sending out eventually, and am intrigued by PCB International’s 5/5 rules.
Roko
I’ve had non-square PCBs made and supplied an outline which was routed to.
They charge a price adder for multi-panel designs; but IIRC it was similar to what GP charges.
That said, shoot em an email; they seem to have < 5 minute response times.
–David Carne